Evidence of meeting #14 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 2nd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was money.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Liaison Secretariat for Macroeconomic Policy, Privy Council Office
The committee is chaired by my superior, Mr. Simon Kennedy, who I believe has been before this committee before. I typically attend those meetings.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
All right, thank you very much.
Colleagues, I would just note, editorially, that the focus of the committee on behalf of the House of Commons appears to be three things. I'll just hand this over to the witnesses; it doesn't need a response. Number one is the speed with which we get out the stimulus spending; number two is rule compliance as the money is spent; and number three is a combination of job creation and efficacy. That's not necessarily a complete list, because many members may have different perspectives from that, but I urge our witnesses to consider those templates as they prepare for the next meeting.
Can we let the witnesses go now, and then we'll just do our committee business? Thank you to all of our witnesses today. You're free to withdraw now. We'll see you soon.
Ms. Scratch, our researcher, has provided a memorandum on the stimulus spending, and I think you'll find it useful. It's the best we can do with the information we have at this time, and I hope it will be helpful in preparing for our first meeting back after the break.
So if there aren't any further comments on the stimulus spending.... Did you want to say something, Ms. Hall Findlay, on stimulus spending?
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
We had talked about the need to have somebody come in over the next while. I understood that this meeting was actually to talk about planning, in terms of the next couple of months, on the stimulus spending issue, the desire that we've expressed to have somebody come in on a regular basis.
I asked the clerk if it was possible for us to put a motion today--notwithstanding the lack of notice, because it's dealing with today's issue and we are about to leave for two weeks--a recommendation that we have Mr. Smith and whoever else come on a regular basis, for half an hour, once a week.
I leave it to you, Mr. Chair, to say whether that's something we can talk about or not. I see my colleague also wants to speak.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Yes, I think there's general agreement that this is something we want to keep a handle on. I'm not sure that every week is necessary. That would really limit what we can do otherwise. But absolutely, we're certainly happy.... I don't know that we need to pass a motion. I'm hoping there's general support for keeping tabs on this and moving forward with it.
Certainly there's support, but I'm not sure that this should be every second meeting.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
All right. Just before you speak, Mr. McTeague, I would point out that when we recommence after the Easter break we'll have one meeting on stimulus spending, and then we have three meetings on the issue of procurement, which could be the beginning of a fairly intensive study of procurement. That's based on the motion by Madame Bourgeois.
If we were to have more meetings--I'm not saying we shouldn't, but if we do--it would have to be an actual additional meeting inserted into that. And we can certainly do it.
Mr. McTeague.
Liberal
Dan McTeague Liberal Pickering—Scarborough East, ON
I appreciate Mr. Warkentin's comments.
I'm just looking at the number of sittings we have. Given the puncturing of our time here, it would appear that we only have about seven actual sitting weeks. Therefore, in a three-month period, that almost covers and captures the concern about doing this ad nauseam. Given that this period of time for vote 35 on expenditures will be over this period, it's certainly perfectly in keeping that we actually get a tally or an accounting, where we can, of what's being spent. I think that would be seen as a responsible move by the committee, by consensus.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
I understand the intent of Ms. Hall Findlay's suggestion. I suggest that we wait until our first meeting back and we go through it in a manner that should be fairly intensive. I'm assuming that opposition members will probe fairly aggressively on the spending when we come back. It won't just be a waltz through the park. That's what opposition parties do. Government members will, I'm sure, be appropriately scrutinizing in their efforts. At that meeting, it may well become apparent that we want to follow something else in particular. At that point, it would be completely in order, in my view, to say we'd like to do some more work on an item tomorrow, or the next day or the next week, and we could fit in some time for that.
I find it difficult to actually schedule something specific today, because we haven't identified anything concrete just yet.
Ms. Hall Findlay.
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
I'm sorry to differ, Mr. Chair, but we have identified something very specific--that is, a commitment to spend $3 billion. We've already heard from our colleagues across the way an acknowledgement that we all want to keep on top of this. We don't know the specifics, and that's part of the problem.
We had Mr. Smith volunteer today to be at the disposal of the committee. It's not that we are in a position to spend three hours analyzing a specific expenditure when we come back. The issue is to get a report from the Treasury Board on a regular basis over the next few weeks as to what that detail might be, because specifically, we don't have that detail. It could be just for a half-hour, and it could be slotted into our procurement sessions. We have an unusual circumstance now with vote 35, so my request is that we ask Mr. Smith to come to the committee on a regular basis over the course of the next seven weeks of meetings, even if it's just for a half-hour at the beginning of the regularly scheduled procurement meetings, so we can get that update.
I thought I saw my colleagues across the way nodding.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
You saw me nodding. You sensed I was nodding. I'm in full agreement.
If it's just a half-hour or whatever, I'm happy with that. If we just ask that they provide us with the information that's being provided on the website, they could do that too.
I'm not opposed to that; I'm only opposed that we don't do so every second meeting. I'm not opposed as long as we just get an update; otherwise we're going to be unable to pursue anything else, really.
You have my word, and I don't know how much you value that, but I'm supportive to continue to be on top of this. I'm not in a position where I want to tie the chair's hands or our hands in terms of giving the actual dates of this. I'd like to pursue the procurement study, but you have my word that I'm interested. I can't speak on behalf of my own colleagues, but I think you can rest assured that we're all interested in ensuring that this money is allocated to the departments and that it's being handled in a manner such that we can be proud to answer any questions that taxpayers or Canadians have.
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
The website was two weeks out of date, the last time I checked.
I just want the chair and the clerk to have some idea that we would like to have that kind of regular appearance before the committee.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
Okay. Why don't we agree that we will prepare to schedule an additional one-hour-only meeting, targeted on a Wednesday, if the clerk can find meeting space? We will greenlight these meetings as we move along. We can have one every week, if need be. The difficulty in adding a half-hour before or after is that we bump into other committees and we have other....
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
No, no. I'm saying a half-hour of our two-hour allotment.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
Well, then you'd have to convince Madame Bourgeois that her procurement and SME study—
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Mr. Chair, I looked at the document put forward by our research analyst. I want to tell you that it's very well done. It provides a lengthy explanation of things and provides answers to many of the questions asked today.
I want to return to Mr. Smith's statement, which we received. As I am a visual person, I have a hard time understanding the translation. Nonetheless, it was just as complete. He's given us the assurance that, indeed, there are people who will review how the money in the budget is allocated.
There's also the Auditor General of Canada. I understand that we have work to do. Nonetheless, I have a suggestion to make to Ms. Findlay. We have to let people work. If they're always having to appear before us, they won't get any work done.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
I, for one, will be tabling a motion today. We must have a plan for small and medium businesses.
At most, I am willing for us to take a half hour every three weeks. That gives people enough time to work and prepare a list of the approved projects. We'll have it at hand, that's all.
That is the amendment I would make to your suggestion. A half hour every three weeks, if you agree.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
I think I see a consensus to try to schedule something to deal with what will come up in our inquiry here. The challenge is when to schedule it. We're either going to take a half-hour from another meeting that's already dealing with something else, or we will schedule another hour at another point that's accessible to all of us, or most of us.
Could we proceed on that basis? We may end up clipping one of our procurement meetings by a half-hour, but we won't know this until we go through the first meeting on the Tuesday. Once we go through that meeting, we'll know. If I just get nods from a few members here, we can schedule an hour or clip a half-hour from one of the procurement meetings to deal with issues that come up. If you want to proceed on that basis, we can do that.
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
We can do something more formal when we come back, if we feel the need to do that.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Derek Lee
Yes.
If someone wants to craft a motion that's a bit more formal and regular, then that's great. Shop it around and see if we can get it approved.
Is that okay?
By the way, now I have to flip over to procurement. Ms. Scratch, at my request, prepared a two-pager that attempts to segregate, organize, and classify the kind of study we're getting into. I thought it would be helpful to members. If there are any comments on it now, go ahead. Otherwise, you may wish to speak with Ms. Scratch.
Mr. Warkentin.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Just for the interest of committee members, the Canadian Federation of Independent Business was here already. They have undertaken a study of their own. I think maybe you're aware of that. I just mention that to inform committee members that we may want to call them back at some point towards the end of this, because I think they will have a lot more information to provide to us. It's just a suggestion to make everyone aware that they are undertaking a study.