Evidence of meeting #22 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was infrastructure.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Liberal
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
In fairness, announcements can pay wages, because once an announcement is made, the municipality can hire people immediately. They do not require any further approval to begin the work.
The way Building Canada and the Liberal programs operated is that you gave invoices and invoice statements, which would be remunerated. The way the infrastructure funds under the stimulus, the $4 billion fund, can work is that we can upfront 25% of the money for that year immediately, once there's been an announcement, so that municipalities can go forward.
I'm going to challenge you. If you could name me a single municipality that can't move forward on a project we've announced because they don't have money, where work can't be done, if you have a single municipality, I will correct it today.
Liberal
Martha Hall Findlay Liberal Willowdale, ON
But it's a question of timing. It's a question of the fact that we're in the middle of May, and we still don't have shovels in the ground. The whole purpose of this was to take advantage of this construction season.
It's all well and good that these announcements may go ahead next year, but the purpose was this year and stimulus now.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
When we came forward with the plan to partner with provinces and municipalities, I think there were some legitimate concerns, which you and the Liberal party expressed, that municipalities wouldn't have the money to participate and that many or most would be left out. The good news is that we did a bid call in Ontario. There were 2,700 projects, and 95% of municipalities said that they had a project and had their third of the funding to go forward. So those concerns have not materialized. That's good news.
I'll give you an example. In the first two or three days of April, we advanced municipalities double the gas tax money, but we also advanced the payment up from July. I suspect that you won't notice any difference in municipalities as compared to the federal performance with respect to stimulation--you know, jobs. It does take a few weeks.
It was Mr. Ignatieff who I think wisely said, and I would impart it to you, that we cannot pass judgment in May on a plan that went forward in May. I encourage you to reflect on that, because I think he's a very wise man in this regard.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
My premier and I are working well together too. He has done a good job too, and I'm sure you have good things to say about that.
Liberal
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Good morning, minister, and thank you for being here this morning. Good morning to you as well, ladies and gentlemen.
When you appeared before this committee, my colleague, who handles infrastructure for Quebec, asked you how the Canada-Quebec agreement would be done. He knows that it's different in Quebec. You have to reach an agreement with the Quebec government, and then the municipalities have to reach one with the province. Is that done?
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
The premier of Quebec and the Prime Minister of Canada have announced a contribution of $350 million to PRECO, the Programme de renouvellement des conduites d'eau potable et d'eaux usées, the purpose of which is to support projects in every Quebec region. I am proud to say that a number of projects have already been identified and that some are on the table. We're making progress. I wasn't satisfied. We have to do more and more quickly. As I've previously told our colleague Mario Laframboise, we respect the jurisdictions of the provinces. We had to negotiate with the Government of Quebec to reach an agreement on the list of projects that the two levels of government will support.
Yesterday I spoke for about half an hour with Minister Nathalie Normandeau and members of the Quebec government. It was a good discussion. I hope there will be more specific projects in the coming days and weeks. The Prime Minister of Canada has discussed our progress with the Union des municipalités du Québec this afternoon. I realize we must do more in the coming days and weeks. The process has taken a little more time in Quebec as a result of the legislation and because we have to cooperate with the Government of Quebec.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
I suppose the $350 million you refer to is part of the stimulus package.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Of the $4 billion, slightly less than $1 billion will go to Quebec. If the provinces and municipalities invested $2 billion or $3 billion, we could have $7 billion and create two or three times more projects in the municipalities.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
As the municipalities couldn't do business directly with you, but had to go through the Government of Quebec, we wondered whether as many projects would be accepted from Quebec as from the other provinces, given the time. In your view, will there be as many projects for Quebec?
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
Of course. There's $350 million, which represents one-third of the billion dollars allocated to Quebec under this specific program. There are other projects that do not come under the Quebec government's jurisdiction, such as ports. There is a proposal from Sept-Îles and Quebec City, and other projects are proposed by the Port of Montreal. There are also others in British Columbia, such as the Port of Nanaimo; in Ontario, there's the port of Hamilton. There may also be a little money spent on projects under federal jurisdiction.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
Ultimately, you're assuring me that it isn't because municipalities have to go through the Government of Quebec that they will have fewer projects accepted. You've taken that aspect into account.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
This morning's Le Devoir talks about the annual meeting of the Union des municipalités du Québec, which began yesterday in Gatineau. The mayors of the municipalities are complaining that there still haven't been any major site start-ups as a result of the emergency infrastructure funding promised to stimulate the economy.
Stephen Harper and Jean Charest will be meeting with them this afternoon. What do you have to say to that?
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
The Prime Minister and I will be going to Gatineau this afternoon. We'll be reporting on our progress in the House of Commons and the Senate in June. This file is a major concern for me. We've had to make a lot of decisions with the Government of Quebec. The June report will provide specific details on our commitments and work. We agree that we have made progress here.
Bloc
Diane Bourgeois Bloc Terrebonne—Blainville, QC
May my colleague ask a question, Mr. Chairman? Does he have any time left?
Bloc
Jean-Yves Roy Bloc Haute-Gaspésie—La Mitis—Matane—Matapédia, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chairman.
Minister, I want to ask you a very specific question. A very special case was raised in the House last week, but I don't want you to respond to me on that specific case; it's merely an example.
Last week, a question was asked in the House on the Port of Rimouski, and the Minister of Fisheries and Oceans answered. The Port of Rimouski also belongs to Transport Canada; it's a shared port. For years now, the Department of Fisheries and Oceans and the Minister of Transport have tossed the ball back and forth to determine who will repair it.
In my region, various items of infrastructure belong to Transport Canada, and there has been no investment for a number of years.
I think the government should have invested a lot of money in its own infrastructure, which is completely obsolete, particularly in our regions. In my riding alone, I could name at least three port facilities belonging to Transport Canada that are in a fairly advanced state of dilapidation. For example, in Saint-Maxime-du-Mont-Louis, the situation has been disastrous for many years now. However, Transport Canada has not invested a penny, and the infrastructure is splitting in two.
In the stimulus package, how much have you allocated to infrastructure belonging to Transport Canada in Quebec, Newfoundland and Labrador and the Maritimes? The situation is the same in Canada as a whole. I want us to take care of major infrastructure, but there is also infrastructure in the regions.
Conservative
John Baird Conservative Ottawa West—Nepean, ON
There are a lot of stimulus funds. Among other things, there is the $4 billion stimulus fund for infrastructure. We've also announced projects such as the Alexandra bridge, the Chaudière bridge and so on. We're also investing in projects under federal jurisdiction, in particular those of Parks Canada and VIA Rail. We could invest the $4 billion fund in projects under federal jurisdiction, even if it's in a port that does not come under my department.
