Government Operations Committee on Oct. 29th, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Minister, did you finish your response?

I'm sorry, I have to cut you off.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

If you have that, I would welcome hearing it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Minister, you just informed us that you've given the information to the budget officer. I am wondering whether that information gives the exact dollars that have flowed through, because we were following the dollar signs and saying, committed or flowed. Is that what he has, and will we be able to get that from him?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We delivered three boxes of the best available information we're able to present. As we get more information from the provinces and municipalities, we'll be able to forward it.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

But will the budget officer be able to give us that information?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

This is unique for me, having the chair ask me questions. I haven't seen this before.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I'm just clarifying this, so there's no confusion.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

That's very good of you.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I don't want confusion here.

All I want are the dollar amounts. If we ask the budget officer, is this the amount that has been spent, and he says yes, that will bring the end to the subject.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

You ask him.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Okay, we will, if that's the information he has.

Madame Bourgeois.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Good afternoon Mr. Minister, Mr. Minister of State, ladies and gentlemen.

First, allow me to express my disappointment in not having the numbers. As you can appreciate, I am especially interested in seeing how Quebec compares to the other provinces. A little earlier, the Minister of State spoke of Alberta and the different projects that were accepted in the Canadian provinces. I would have thought that you would have the numbers given how important the nation of Quebec is to you. I would have liked you to arrive with some numbers. I have some very specific questions for the minister and the Minister of State.

Could you provide some figures on the infrastructure spending in Quebec? Would it be possible to have those?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

With respect to the infrastructure stimulus fund, we gave Quebec a full per capita share of it. That is something important to note. With the Province of Quebec, we respect les compétences provinciales. It's a provincial prerogative when you're dealing with provincial assets and municipalities.

In the infrastructure stimulus fund, there have been 394 projects approved in the Province of Quebec, with a total eligible cost of $1.320 billion, with federal funding green-lighted at $539,400,000.

I hope that responds to your specific numerical request.

[Rob Merrifield, Conservative, Yellowhead, AB]

If I could just add with regard to the specifics for Quebec, because we are talking about VIA Rail as one of the crown corporations, there is $100 million that has been allocated for the F-40 locomotives that were built in Quebec. It is an open contract that was bid there.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

Over the past few months, it has been somewhat difficult, what with the municipal elections that were planned in 30 days. We ended up making our announcements to the municipal authorities. It is not the time to be making announcements, but I am proud to give you the details and the specific numbers you are asking for.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

We heard from the Fédération Québécoise des Municipalités last week. It seemed to be telling us that there was a certain delay in the funding from the federal government.

In light of the specific agreements between the federal government and the Government of Quebec, are you going to give the municipalities more time to submit requests to you?

We know that the infrastructure program has a specific end date. Have you taken into account the delays surrounding the elections and the agreements you have with Quebec?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

I will speak in English because I want to be very precise.

On infrastructure funds, there are moneys available that can flow immediately to help with start-up costs. Then the municipalities, through their provinces, submit invoices, which we have committed to paying within 30 days.

I would be very happy to receive any concerns you have about any municipal project. If there is a single one where the invoices haven't been paid within 30 days, if you could bring it to my attention, we'll ensure that it's completely rectified.

To date I have not seen a single municipality that has invoiced us, as there is always a desire to get the cheque up front for the whole amount. We heard that concern, and that's why we responded with the gas tax transfer. This year we doubled it, and we front-end loaded half of that in April instead of July, so they would have immediate cash in their hands. And the rest of the invoices we committed to pay within 30 days. If you can name for me a single municipality that hasn't been paid, we will see that it is dealt with immediately.

I am told by my officials that the Province of Quebec has not submitted a claim for reimbursement under the stimulus fund to date, and because

the Government of Quebec is responsible for the municipalities, that is who we have to work with. As soon as we receive an invoice from the Government of Quebec, it will be paid in 30 days. That is very important.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

In other words, if the Fédération Québécoise des Municipalités felt the need to extend the deadlines for the infrastructure programs, it could go through the Government of Quebec, who would then ask you for an extension.

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

No. The government and the House of Commons supported the budget implementation bill and have said that the stimulus fund would end at the end of March 2011.

The Building Canada Fund is much more flexible, but I have not heard that a single dollar was sent late to the municipalities. If the municipalities have specific projects and need to receive their money, we would be pleased to ensure that they get their cheque.

That is something that was discussed during a meeting with the Fédération Québécoise des Municipalités, the premier, Denis Lebel and myself. We listened to their concerns and their opinion and we are prepared to work with them.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Did you go far enough to tell us how many jobs will be created in Quebec through the infrastructure projects you have granted?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

The best figure was given by the Federation of Canadian Municipalities, when Jean Perrault, the Mayor of Sherbrooke, was the president. That agency conducted a major pre-budgetary study and said that for every $1 billion spent on infrastructure, 11,000 direct jobs would be created through the purchase of materials and the labour that is required.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Mr. Minister, with all due respect, I must say that is just an estimate. It is an estimate by the Federation of Canadian Municipalities.

As minister—and you, ladies and gentlemen, as public officials—could you have conducted a feasibility study of this economic stimulus plan?

[John Baird, Conservative, Ottawa West—Nepean, ON]

We accept the figures from the Federation of Canadian Municipalities. Our goal is to not tell every municipality in Quebec and Canada that Ottawa will micromanage every project before they even make a request,

before they make an order for steel, before they make an order for concrete, before they issue a tender or a contract, exactly how many jobs.

There are 200 people at Infrastructure Canada. We made a decision quite early on that we weren't going to try to micromanage 7,600 different infrastructure projects, ranging from $20,000 to $666 million. We simply don't have the capacity to micromanage 7,600 contracts, and I don't think any province or municipality is asking us to do so. I haven't heard of a single one. If there are, I'd welcome hearing them.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Minister. Thank you, Madame Bourgeois.

We now go to M. Gourde, pour huit minutes.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair. My questions are for Rob Merrifield, in order to give him a chance to speak. Mr. Baird has been very busy today.

Infrastructure, such as roads, bridges and water treatment plants, represent a significant part of our economic action plan. I know that we have announced our financial support for thousands of projects. I have had the chance to make several announcements in Quebec. We also often hear about Ontario. However, in western Canada, we do not often hear about the progress of projects.

Could you say a few words about the infrastructure projects in Alberta and Saskatchewan, for example?