Right now our average age for operating engineers, who range from crane operators to concrete pumps, is around 45 years old. That's our average age. You look at some of our training schools, and I'll take Holyrood, in Newfoundland, we have young men and women there who are willing to get trained on the various equipment, but they need the jobs. If you look at tower crane operators, to get a red seal, I believe Ontario requires 6,000 hours for an apprentice to get to a journeyperson.
Who's usually the first to go on a job? It's the apprentice. So to get your 6,000 hours takes a very long time. It's a great job if you get to it, but getting to it is the problem in some places. If we lose an apprentice, who may be laid off for four or five months, they need the work and they'll go somewhere else. We will lose them; they won't come back.
In our sector we have an aging demographic, and we have an issue trying to get some of these apprentices and young people in.