Government Operations Committee on Nov. 19th, 2009

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

On a completely separate issue, I notice you are transferring $4 million from the National Council of Aboriginal Federal Employees and the National Council of Visible Minorities to the Treasury Board.

[Marilyn MacPherson]

That's $4,000.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

It's $4,000. Okay, I'm sorry.

[Marilyn MacPherson]

There was an agreement by the human resources management advisory group of deputies that they would support these three councils, and I believe they're supporting up to an amount of something like $1 million for all three. What they do is tax each of the departments, and I think it's a three-year commitment. So that's our portion.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

And you are again transferring $215,000 to Foreign Affairs.

[Marilyn MacPherson]

That's correct.

[Olivia Chow, NDP, Trinity—Spadina, ON]

Are you working a mission abroad?

[Marilyn MacPherson]

No, nothing like that. We have a Canada-Australia exchange program, which was approved. I mentioned it in my opening remarks. Any staff who go outside of the country are always supported by DFAIT, so this is the amount of money we're transferring to them in order to be able to do that kind of support.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Now we'll move over to the Liberal Party of Canada, and Ms. Martha Hall Findlay, for five minutes.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I recognize that everybody is rushed for time. I don't have really specific questions, but you have been referring to numbers and I appreciate this document, which has a breakdown of the advertising communications piece. But you have also mentioned numbers associated with the $7 million operating costs. And there have been a number of other references through this session about information you have that you'd be willing to provide.

Ms. Chow did validly point out that we are going to have to approve or deal with these estimates fairly quickly. So I would like to ask—notwithstanding my desire to help you out with the three-week timeframe—that all the things that have been committed be provided to us within the two weeks. Also, can we have a breakdown of the $7 million operating costs? That's a really large amount of money, and so a more line-item approach would be very helpful to us.

[Marilyn MacPherson]

In my opening remarks it's itemized, but I can provide you with the dollar figures that go with those.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

The itemization does not have dollars associated with it. I'm thinking business. I would like to see the dollars associated with the line items, if we could, please.

[Marilyn MacPherson]

Yes.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

All of that within the next couple of weeks--and earlier if possible, of course.

In the interests of trying to be fair and generous to my colleagues, I will leave it at that. You owe me, but I'm just saying...

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

There are still three minutes left in Ms. Hall Findlay's time. Would one of the other Liberal members like to use that time? All right.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

We recognize that there's a timeframe.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Now, we are on to Ms. Bourgeois.

You can use those three minutes, if you so wish.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am angry with myself for not asking Mrs. MacPherson about the document she read at the start of the meeting.

Mrs. MacPherson, you know how concerned I am not only about government spending, but also about what is happening in departments, including employees' working conditions and what people are going through.

At the very beginning of your document, on page 2 of the French version, you ask for $7.3 million to eliminate permanently chronic pressures within the department. Can you tell me honestly what "chronic pressures" you have experienced and how you think they can be eliminated?

[Marilyn MacPherson]

There are a number of items listed here for the $7.3 million, so maybe I will take one example.

We have the Prime Minister's tour group, which is actually attached to my branch. These individuals go out with the Prime Minister on all of his domestic and international flights or trips. They are the ones who actually set up the stage, put up the drapes, do all the recording, make sure the teleprompter works--always trying to put the very professional face on our Prime Minister when he is acting as the head of our government.

Over time, because of the increases in travel costs and in the increases in cargo and freight costs, we've had a chronic lack of funds to cover the overtime for these individuals. There are only 13 of them. It sounds like a lot of people, except that there are groups of people. For example, if he's going to go to three different sites, then one group will go to the first site and another one will go to the second, so they are leap-frogging. So there's an overtime expenditure for which we have not had sufficient funds but which we've been covering with the lapses.

It's the same thing with freight and cargo. Those expenditures have gone up. So to maintain the same type of service, the total for that is about $1 million. That's one example of a chronic problem that has developed over time, and we have been able to cover off that expense with the lapsed funds. But as I had mentioned earlier, those lapses are disappearing as we become more proactive about staffing.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

When you say that there are "chronic pressures", it means that you experience those pressures year in and year out; they are recurring. In the end, with this surplus, you hope to improve the work environment and perhaps make working conditions better.

[Marilyn MacPherson]

That is very true. I think we had more of a difficulty before we came forward with these funds, because we weren't staffing. That was the problem behind it. We weren't staffing our positions fast enough. We weren't staffing enough of them, so the burden fell to the individuals and analysts who were there. That's not a very good workplace to invite the young and the brightest of Canadians to come to, so we want to make sure we staff up to the levels we're supposed to staff up to. If we do that, however, there will then be these other chronic problems for which we no longer have any residual funds.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

If I am not mistaken, your office would encounter the exact same problems the Public Service Commissioner told us about, such as staffing problems and problems with employees who are not interested because the workload in the department is too heavy.

[Marilyn MacPherson]

You are absolutely right. In 2007, we put a strategic human resources plan in place. We tried to attract people, we put in a program, launched by Mr. Kennedy for analysts, in order to get people interested in coming to the Privy Council Office to gain experience and work with us. Change takes time. However, we have some programs and initiatives in place to do it.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Excellent. Thank you very much.

[The Vice-Chair, Conservative, Rob Anders]

Thank you.

We have two final interventions. Mr. Warkentin, from the Conservative Party, for five minutes.