Government Operations Committee on Nov. 24th, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Committee members, we have some committee business. The first thing is the motion by Mr. Anders.

I'm sorry, I was told the steering committee report is first.

Item 6 of the steering committee report stated “That the Clerk be authorized to distribute to the Committee members, in one or the other official languages”. Madame Baltacioglu explained to us the cost of $230,000 for translation and two to three months. I would like to ask the committee if they still want the information translated, and if they do, it will take two to three months and the information will be irrelevant by that time.

So, committee members, do you wish that information be distributed to the committee without translation?

No, you do not? That's fine.

Oui?

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

The position of the Bloc Québécois is that we accept that the documents be tabled for practical purposes, because, in three months, they will no longer be useful. If we wait three months, they will not be of any use whatsoever, correct?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Let me give just a little history.

The 4,500 pages that Infrastructure Canada gave to the Parliamentary Budget Officer—and Mr. Martin was right in asking the question—should have been given electronically. When we spoke to Infrastructure Canada, and we had a motion before committee, they submitted to us the electronic version and gave the same to the Parliamentary Budget Officer.

Anyone who wants to access the information can always access it via the Parliamentary Budget Officer if they want to. It's full, complete. So if we sit here as a committee and think that this information is not being distributed without translation, we are absolutely incorrect. You can get it; the information is available.

What happened was the steering committee wanted it to be put forward to the committee. The translation--it's 5,000 lines--costs $230,000. It's a really onerous cost, and it will take the department two to three months. Now we would have an option. We could ask the clerk to find out an alternate translation. If that's the case, we could. We wouldn't have to wait two to three months. We will have to figure out how long it takes. If you wish for me to report back at the next meeting, I could do that.

Monsieur Plamondon.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

The position of the Bloc Québécois is that we will make an exception and we will agree that the documents be provided solely in English or in the language in which they were written, so that we can do our jobs and see to some extent how useful these tables are.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Gourde.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Madam Chair, I am quite shocked and disappointed in the proposal by the dean of the House of Commons. Bilingualism is a principle to which we subscribe, and it is important to me. This proves that our party is the only one to promote bilingualism, French and related values.

I see Mr. Plamondon laughing. I am extremely disappointed. I am serious. He clearly said that he would accept the documents in English, and he is saying this after having sat for more than 25 years in this House and defended the values of bilingualism. Madam Chair, this is unacceptable. It is truly unacceptable!

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

What is the problem, Mr. Gourde?

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

Madam Chair, I don't want us to debate it. My colleague's last statement is hypocritical. The Conservatives don't want us to look at the documents. That is why I agreed, because it is urgent that we do look at them. They don't want this and they are using bilingualism as an excuse. That is hypocritical. They have never been in favour of bilingualism. I was a Conservative and I know.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Point of order, Madam Chair. I cannot accept Mr. Plamondon's statements on hypocrisy. We have principles here. I demand an apology—

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Order.

That is not a point of order.

[Louis Plamondon, Bloc, Bas-Richelieu—Nicolet—Bécancour, QC]

That is hypocritical. He is an hypocrite and a demagogue. No, I will not apologize.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Order.

Thank you.

Madam Foote.

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

Madam Chair, I move that the documents be tabled in whatever format they've been tabled in for the committee.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you. It is in the steering committee report, and that is where I was asking the question.

Now, for committee members who really want it—and I can see that the government side does not want this report given to them in anything but the official languages—the information the department sent us was that they were not going to translate it for us, despite the fact that it is the department's job to translate. When I spoke to the deputy minister, she said they could translate it but it would cost $230,000. You heard her. And she said it would take two to three months.

If the committee members wish to have the report individually, there is a way to get it. In terms of those who don't want to look at the report and probably have seen it already and think bilingualism is going to stop them, there are ways of accessing it and you can see me afterwards.

Mr. Warkentin.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Madam Chair, I know I am probably speaking about something that was maybe in camera, but there was an arrangement in our last meeting, if you recall, with regard to translation of this particular document. If you reference when we last met in camera, I would ask that you fulfill the commitment that was made by the chair in terms of distribution in one of the particular official languages.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

What commitment? We decided to have a compromise, and the information you received was the summary of information, rolled up and given to you. The second thing that was discussed in camera—which shouldn't be discussed here, but now it's open—was that the clerk go back to the department and ask them to provide us with translation. The department came back and told us--

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

If you recall the last meeting, and if I have permission of committee members to speak about the translation issue that we spoke of when we last met in camera....

Do I have permission of committee members to reference material from the last meeting in camera?

[Some hon. members]

No.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

We'll check the minutes and we will get back to you. How about that? We will see whether there has been anything—

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

Let's maybe delay this until there has been a reference of those minutes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Warkentin, any committee member who wishes to access these 4,500 pages can access them whichever way they want, without this committee distributing it to them.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

There was a commitment in the last meeting, by you, Madam Chair, in terms of the translation of the Quebec portions of the documents, to be translated into English. There was consent from all sides.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

No, I'm sorry, there was not.

[Judy Foote, Liberal, Random—Burin—St. George's, NL]

Madam Chair, there's a motion already that I put forward suggesting that we accept the tabling of the documents as they've been presented.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Sorry, Ms. Foote, that was my error.

The motion is that we table the 4,500-page document as was given to us by Infrastructure Canada.