Government Operations Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2009

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Order, please.

If committee members would please take their places, I'd like to call the meeting to order.

Pursuant to Standing Order 81(5), we'll be reviewing the supplementary estimates (B) of 2009-2010, and we will be voting on those supplementary estimates after our witnesses have left.

What I am proposing, if committee members would agree, is that we question the witnesses from 3:30 to 4:20, and then from 4:20 to 4:30 we do approval of the vote numbers, if it's agreeable. If you don't want me to cut down the minister's time by 10 minutes, I'm at your disposal.

Can we see how it goes along? If we can stop at 4:20, I would like to, and then we have committee business to do.

Minister, do you have any opening remarks?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, President of the Treasury Board]

I do.

Thank you very much, Madam Chair.

I'm pleased to be here to discuss the 2009-2010 supplementary estimates (B) for my department.

With me today are Michelle d'Auray, the secretary of the Treasury Board, and Christine Walker, assistant secretary, corporate service sector and chief financial officer. Also with me is Alister Smith, assistant secretary, expenditure management sector, and Hélène Laurendeau, the assistant deputy minister, compensation and labour relations, of the office of the chief human resources officer.

As I said, I'm here to discuss the supplementary estimates. As you know, supplementary estimates are a part of the normal parliamentary approval process to ensure previously planned government initiatives receive the necessary funding to move forward.

The total funding requested in these supplementary estimates is $760.5 million, of which $713 million represents new appropriations. Most of this funding is to cover the costs of new collective agreements. I'm happy to say this has been a very busy and successful year in terms of collective bargaining in the federal government. These supplementary estimates request $735.4 million to support more than 100 departments, agencies, and appropriation-dependent crown corporations in meeting the additional personnel costs that have resulted from new collective agreements and other compensation decisions.

These collective agreements and the resulting requirement for funds comply with the Expenditure Restraint Act, an important part of our commitment to responsible spending during one of the worst economic crises in living memory.

These estimates also complete the transfer of resources needed to create the office of the chief human resources officer, which is housed in Treasury Board Secretariat. This important change was announced by the Prime Minister in February 2009 and was part of our response to the recommendations made by the Prime Minister's advisory committee on the public service. The advisory committee called on the government to simplify the organizational structure for human resources management. We responded last year with an ambitious strategic review of the six organizations that have central responsibilities for human resources management. Through this review, over $250 million in funding was put under the microscope. The end result is a new and leaner governance structure that reduces duplication and puts us in an even better position to continue renewing the public service. This new structure ensures that public servants have the support they need to continue providing sound policy advice to the government and high-quality services to Canadians.

I would like to take a moment to speak about Treasury Board's strategic review process as it applies government-wide.

As you know, we are in the third year of strategic reviews. Strategic reviews are a key pillar of our new expenditure management system, which was implemented in 2007 as part of an ongoing commitment to better manage government spending. Through the strategic review process, the government systematically assesses the relevance and performance of every program on a cyclical basis. Organizations review their direct program spending and the operating costs of their major statutory programs to assess how and whether these programs are effective and efficient, meet the priorities of Canadians, and are aligned with core federal responsibilities.

Federal organizations, including departments, agencies, and crown corporations, identify reallocation proposals that can be used to invest in other programs that meet the government's and Canadians' priorities. Recommendations come from the organization or agency undergoing a strategic review. The minister and the deputy head of the organization, as well as its senior financial officer, sign off on their respective reviews, and their recommendations are then considered as part of the government's annual budget planning process. This system ensures value for money for all government spending. This is important at all times. Our government is committed to ensuring that every tax dollar is aligned with the priorities of Canadians.

Madam Chair, in conclusion, 10 months ago our government brought forward the earliest budget in Canadian history. Moving at record speed, we cut red tape and we delivered the largest economic stimulus in Canadian history. Our plan is working for Canada, and I'm proud of the role my department played in this process.

These estimates reflect the progress that has been made and demonstrate our ongoing commitment to ensuring value for money. This is one of my department's top priorities, and I can assure you that together with my officials we will continue delivering strong accountable management, and we will ensure that resources are allocated to achieve results for Canadians.

I am happy to answer your questions.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Minister.

We will start with the first round of questions.

Madam Hall Findlay, you have eight minutes, please.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you, Madam Chair, and thank you, Minister, and everyone else for giving us your time this afternoon. It's much appreciated.

I will focus on the estimates and the funding being requested for additional advertising. So far, $50 million worth of advertising has been allocated for the economic action plan initiatives. In these estimates we're being asked to approve an additional $13 million. On the $50 million allocated, we believe that more has been spent on advertising, but probably through different departments. It's very difficult to make that determination. In any event, we are being asked to approve an additional $13 million for the economic action plan work through the CRA finance and the Privy Council Office.

Minister, I would like you to acknowledge that as part of our job as parliamentarians it is appropriate, when asked to approve that kind of expenditure, that we ask how the money will be spent and assure ourselves that it will be spent according to the rules.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

You're certainly entitled to ask that.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Thank you.

I'm assuming that you respect our jobs and our roles as parliamentarians.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

As a fellow parliamentarian, I respect your role.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I appreciate that, Minister.

Could you please explain to me why a letter I sent to you and the other members of the Treasury Board on October 8, almost two full months ago, specifically about advertising has gone unanswered?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Well you'll have to identify the letter. If you can bring it to my attention, I can see whether or not it has been answered.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I can tell you that it has not been answered, because if it had been answered to my office, I would have received it.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I don't know what letter you're talking about, so how can I answer what letter I didn't answer?

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

On the assumption that what I am telling you is correct--

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Maybe you could have the member provide the letter, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I would like to bring it to your attention to please focus your questions on the estimates. You can submit that letter to me and I'll send it over.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

My point is very specifically related to estimates, because we are being asked to approve an additional $13 million in advertising for the economic action plan.

Minister, it was a letter I sent to you and all the members of the Treasury Board specifically asking about compliance with Treasury Board Secretariat policies, under the Financial Administration Act, on Government of Canada advertising. It is entirely appropriate, given that I never got a response to that--

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Hall Findlay, I have to interrupt you.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Madam Chair, please.

[Jacques Gourde, Conservative, Lotbinière—Chutes-de-la-Chaudière, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Our committee has requested that the minister appear to address the supplementary estimates. Clearly, that question goes against what Ms. Hall Findlay... Treasury Board Secretariat has already appeared twice to deal with that issue. The clerk of the Privy Council was also a witness. We obtained the same answers. All documents relating to the Economic Action Plan fully comply with the government's communications policy. I think that we should move on to other questions, Madam Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Madam Hall Findlay was justifying why she was asking the question, therefore your point of order is not in order.

Madam Hall Findlay, continue. But I think if the minister has not received the letter and has gone through various levels of bureaucrats and has not seen it, perhaps we'll give him the benefit of the doubt. If we could have that letter, perhaps we could send it over from the committee.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I will be more than happy to send a copy. But it went to the minister and all the members of Treasury Board. I find it hard to believe it didn't get received. Given that the minister acknowledged--

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

If I may respond to that, if she has the letter there, please give it to me.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I have already acknowledged that I will give a copy of the letter to you. But in my job as a parliamentarian, two months ago I sent a letter asking very specific questions about compliance with Treasury Board policies on advertising.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Let me answer that specifically, then.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

As we are being asked to approve additional money, and you have acknowledged and have said that you have respect for our jobs as parliamentarians, I'm asking....

There was no letter of response. I did not even receive an acknowledgement of my letter. I am being asked to approve an additional $13 million in advertising spending when I did not, in fact, even get the courtesy of an acknowledgement letter, let alone a response to very substantive questions I raised about the compliance of the advertising program with our federal government policies.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Let me respond to that. I'm certainly willing to answer that question and to see whether the letter has in fact arrived in my office. But I don't know what letter you're talking about. If you would have the courtesy, in carrying out your role as a parliamentarian, to properly put the letter before me so that I can look at the letter, I will then ask my officials to see where the letter is and whether there has been a response provided. And I will have that to you.