Government Operations Committee on Dec. 3rd, 2009

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

Mr. Minister, good afternoon and welcome to the committee.

Ladies and gentlemen, it is a pleasure to welcome you.

According to the supplementary estimates before us, your department has approximately $27.8 million in funds available, and I quote: "[...] from savings identified as part of the government's ongoing strategic review of departmental spending."

Minister, could you indicate which programs Treasury Board Secretariat cut in order to come up with those $27.8 million in savings?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

As I indicated, and I'll have the officials answer the specifics to the extent they can, the process is that each department that comes before strategic reviews brings forward a plan that indicates the 5% lowest performing programs within its mandate. It identifies the lowest 5%. That then comes to Treasury Board. Treasury Board then examines that, makes certain recommendations, and ultimately that goes into the budgetary process.

Perhaps I can have the secretary explain any further details.

[Michelle d'Auray, Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you, Minister.

Basically, as the minister indicated in his opening statement, we reviewed six organizations with responsibilities in the area of human resources. In doing so, we made savings by eliminating certain functions and redundancies. Essentially, the primary function was to recognize the specific role played by deputy ministers in human resources management and recognize that the Human Resources Management Agency would be amalgamated with Treasury Board Secretariat in order to reduce the number of officers responsible for issuing directives, and thus transferring those responsibilities to the deputy ministers.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I want to make sure I understand, Ms. d'Auray. That means that, after having reviewed six public service organizations, and doing a few other things, you were able to save $27.8 million?

[Michelle d'Auray]

As the minister indicated, those six organizations accounted for some $250 million in expenditures. Within those six organizations, we were able to make savings and reinvest amounts in other functions.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

In order for us to understand those figures, where were those amounts reinvested?

[Michelle d'Auray]

Investments were made in training activities. Madam Chair, the supplementary estimates also show that funds were also reinvested into the Canada School of Public Service. Therefore, the amounts were basically reinvested to support training. Other amounts are also available for reinvestment. To date, not all funds have yet been reinvested.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

So, if I am not mistaken, the reinvestments in the School of Public Service are for deputy ministers, staffing, and to allow senior public servants such as deputy ministers to receive more training. Is that so?

[Michelle d'Auray]

In particular, the funds were for a leadership program. Other management programs will become available, and some are already offered for all levels of public servants. So this is not just for deputy ministers and assistant deputy ministers, but rather—

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

You are saying that public servants in general will eventually be able to benefit from those training programs.

[Michelle d'Auray]

Absolutely.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Mr. Minister, on page 1 of your opening statement, you talk about your commitment to responsible spending. Around this time last year, the committee was studying the issue of accrual accounting.

Do you believe that accrual accounting will eventually be used to produce the government's financial statements? That is a request that has repeatedly been made over the last decade. What is being done in that regard?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

That's a very good question and it is something the government is very concerned about accomplishing.

It's proven more difficult in certain departments than in others. But accrual accounting--and I'm speaking as a lay person in terms of accounting--is a much more effective mechanism for determining exactly what is spent in any one fiscal year. It in fact gives an honest and very clear answer as to how many dollars were actually expended in one fiscal year as opposed to simply, for example, buying a battleship in one year and putting all of the costs in that year and then not attributing it.

Mr. Smith can talk extensively about accrual accounting, more than I care to remember from time to time.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

I know what accrual accounting is. I want to know whether you have set a time for implementation.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Yes.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Do you have an implementation plan.

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

Yes.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

When will we be able to have it?

[Vic Toews, Conservative, Provencher, MB]

I should have been clear. That's what I was asking Mr. Smith to address.

[Alister Smith, Assistant Secretary, Expenditure Management Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Thank you for the question.

We have engaged in a pilot project for the reports on priorities and planning to bring in full accrual statements over time. Those will mirror what we do now with the departmental performance reports. So in the next few years we will be able to look at both accrual statements at the beginning of the year and accrual statements at the end of the year for departments.

In addition, as you know, public accounts and the budget are on accrual, so the only remaining frontier and question is accrual appropriations, which is a much more complicated question and one where there is no international consensus yet. But we are doing our homework on that as well.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Do I still have some time left?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

You have 20 seconds.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

If you cannot provide me with an answer to my last question today, could you send me a written response? I would like to come back to my colleague's question. An enormous amount of money was spent to promote Canada's economic stimulus plan. You indicated that almost all departments had their own promotional programs. The amounts varied from $8 million to $10 million or $12 million, depending on the department. We have also noted that millions of dollars were added to your own department's budget to promote—

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Madame Bourgeois, wrap up.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Likewise, at the Privy Council Office, there is an action plan with funding intended to promote the plan.

Could you give me the total cost for promoting the government's Economic Action Plan?