Government Operations Committee on Feb. 26th, 2009

[Jeff Lynt]

Primarily our members are professional services, so we're talking about people providing consulting, and contractors with the federal government.

Certainly we have concerns, as I think all Canadians and taxpayers should, about storing Canadian privacy records off Canadian soil, but our primary concern would be the offshoring of work. SMEs represent Canadian companies--primarily here in the NCA, for the most part--so we believe it's very important to retain that work here in Canada.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

I may not have been clear enough in my question. A concern that many people have with large companies relates to the question of bundling IS/IT contracts. According to your submission, it seems a bit geared toward the big IS/IT management companies. One concern is that those larger companies use servers, use storage capability in the United States, and there have been questions raised about the protection of that data.

Has that been, in your discussions, one of the factors that you have raised in concern about some of this information being worked on, or managed by, some of these larger companies? I mean, if not, if your answer is no--

[Jeff Lynt]

No, that hasn't been a direct focus of our conversations.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

Okay, thank you.

I have a quick question for Mr. McGrath.

In regard to the stimulus package--this is a complete shift here--there is nothing in the report that was tabled with us this morning about the money being spent on eco-retrofits in federal buildings. Our understanding is that an awful lot of federal buildings are not necessarily as energy efficient as we would like. In this day and age this is obviously a concern.

Is any of the stimulus money directed specifically to eco-retrofitting of federal buildings?

[Tim McGrath]

There is a portion. Let me explain that we find the greening of government operations is a normal course of business for us now, so anytime we undertake any type of retrofit in the buildings, or when we go out and lease new properties, we always try to achieve a LEED standard; that's part of our sustainable development strategy. Anytime we do any retrofit, it involves trying to make it as green as possible, for example, with the reuse of material.

So although there's nothing that specifically says “greening of government operations”, our normal course of business is to ensure that we are achieving a LEED certification. In our buildings, we also subscribe to the BOMA Go Green Plus standard. So all of our operations are green as we move forward with retrofits.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

And I commend that, don't get me wrong. That's an excellent development that the government is implementing that policy as retrofits happen.

But these are not normal times. This is not normal course. We have a stimulus package with a great deal of money that the government is now spending, over and above normal course. And certainly, as Liberal opposition members, when we were discussing recommendations for a stimulus package, very high on our list was a recommendation to have federal buildings made more energy efficient, with extra money, and I see nothing in this list.

So is the answer that there really isn't anything in the extra stimulus package here that is consciously going toward making federal buildings more energy efficient, above the normal course?

[Tim McGrath]

I think our biggest project that we have left to do for energy efficiencies is the revitalization of the central heating and cooling plants, for which money has been earmarked already with Treasury Board, so we're applying for that money. But again, through our normal course of business, whenever we do any type of retrofit, if we're replacing windows, for example--and part of the stimulus package is for window replacement--we'll move to an energy-efficient window. We work closely with NRCan and Environment Canada in determining what those requirements are and just work it into our normal course of business.

I know that may not be satisfactory in the sense of saying it's earmarked specifically for energy efficiency. It is, just in the way that we normally carry out our business. We're always looking for opportunities to take any money we have to improve the efficiency and greenness of the buildings.

[Martha Hall Findlay, Liberal, Willowdale, ON]

From your perspective, I do commend that, but I will for the record say--and this is not your fault--that from a policy perspective it is unsatisfactory that with all this money going out to be spent there is no conscious effort to address any of the environmental concerns.

But thank you very much.

[The Chair, Liberal, Derek Lee]

Mr. Calandra, for five minutes.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Most of my questions are going to be directed to CABiNET, and I'll be very quick, because I have only five minutes.

First, Mr. Chair, I've heard a lot of talk about ITAC, so I was wondering if we might also have an opportunity to speak to ITAC. I've just done a quick search on them, and they represent a number of companies too, so I think it would be worth our while to have them as well.

I'd like a quick clarification from you. In responding to Ms. Hall Findlay you said that some of your members were involved in the bid-rigging investigation, and in a later answer to Ms. Bourgeois you said no. I wonder if you might just clarify that for me.

[Jeff Lynt]

I simply clarified that she said seven companies that were charged were part of CABiNET, all seven companies, and that's not the case. There are companies that were charged that have no affiliation with us whatsoever.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

But there were some companies--

[Jeff Lynt]

There were some, yes, absolutely.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

I hope you'lI appreciate I'm a new member of Parliament and I'm trying to develop a little bit of institutional knowledge here as well. There's not much information on you. I did find try to find a little bit about you on the Internet, and there wasn't a heck of a lot there.

How many companies do you represent? What is the nature of the companies you represent? What types of services do these companies provide?

You have to be really quick, because I have only five minutes.

[Jeff Lynt]

We believe we represent the interests of all small and medium enterprises.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

How many, though, are members of your organization?

[Jeff Lynt]

I don't know the specific numbers. It's 45 perhaps. I don't know exactly how many.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

I can't order you to do anything, but could I get a list of them so I could do some Internet searching to see what services they provide?

Again, Mr. Chair, ITAC has 300 companies, so I think we should investigate them as well, or ask them to come here.

[Jeff Lynt]

On that question, we did have those companies online, but—

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Sorry, I'll ask the questions, if you don't mind.

I come from an insurance background; I was an insurance broker in my previous life. I was a small-business guy, just like many of the people you represent, but one of the problems I always had as an insurance broker was trying to insure companies when they were approaching larger projects. It was an argument I always had with the insurance companies, that I could never ever get insurance for companies.

I wonder how that would have an impact—separate from the government entirely. How would some of your organizations actually get insurance to make sure that the government and your companies were covered, if they're successful in getting contracts?

[Jeff Lynt]

Well, all companies that want to bid on government contracts have to have general liability insurance and errors and omissions insurance. It is pricey, for sure. It's a hurdle that small companies have to overcome.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

Have you done any research on how you would do that? It strikes me that it would be very difficult to deal with the government without some specific—

[Jeff Lynt]

We do have it, and in our RFPs there is specific information on the levels of insurance required. In order to bid on the contract, you have to have that insurance.

[Paul Calandra, Conservative, Oak Ridges—Markham, ON]

And the companies you represent aren't finding it difficult right now in the current economic environment to come up with insurance?

[Jeff Lynt]

It is expensive, but it's the cost of doing business.