Government Operations Committee on April 21st, 2010

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Mr. Lukiwski, you've got one minute.

[Tom Lukiwski, Conservative, Regina—Lumsden—Lake Centre, SK]

One minute, Chair?

Just to follow up--and it's difficult with 60 seconds--you would know, having been a former politician, that we are held to higher standards. We have to observe propriety in everything we do. It's also more than that; it's the appearance of propriety.

Do you feel, based on all of the things that might have been confusing to the general public--you have explained why certain statements on your website might have been misinterpreted--that the appearance of propriety has been tarnished because of some of the things you've had on your website or your corporate website, given the fact you were a former member of Parliament? Do you believe that the impression might have been left with potential clients or members of the general public that you could provide some access to government?

[Rahim Jaffer]

Mr. Lukiwski, the only thing I can say to you is that I personally feel that was never the intention of anything we were trying to do. And in particular, the proof is always in the pudding. Did we actually do the kind of work we are alleged to have said we had done? I can only say to you that I took great care to avoid any type of activity, whether lobbying or trying to influence anyone in any capacity, because that wasn't where I wanted to be. It wasn't the type of business I wanted to do, and it still is not the focus of our current company work.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you, Mr. Lukiwski.

I have been asked to provide this website information to you, because I think members on all sides have a real concern. I think Mr. Warkentin did refer to this website and Ms. Coady did as well. So could you just give this to Mr. Jaffer for his clarification?

We will now go to the last round.

Ms. Mendes, for five minutes.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I would like to ask you, Mr. Jaffer, if you have acted in the past as spokesperson for any business connected to Mr. Gillani or to International Strategic Investments? I will mention some of them, although this is not a complete list: HD Retail Solutions, Fluidform Corp., Cultural Exchange Network, and so on. Have you acted as spokesperson for these companies?

[Rahim Jaffer]

Not only have I not been a spokesperson, I don't even know the business Mr. Gillani conducts in his firm, other than what we basically were introduced to the first time we met.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you. You have just confirmed that you never entered into any kind of financial arrangement with Mr. Gillani. However, when you were questioned on CTV, on April 13, you stated that Mr. Gillani had been in touch with you about the feasibility of a green technology, and you stated that your role was basically to determine whether that technology was marketable or had market potential. Did you provide that advice free of charge to Mr. Gillani?

[Rahim Jaffer]

Initially, as I mentioned, when we were contacted by Mr. Gillani, he said he had big plans for us to work together and to do a technology review and that he was going to retain our services. There were a lot of things he said that never materialized. We were familiar with the technology as a result of getting the material, but after the fact it seemed that nothing was materializing in any business relationship. And because, as I mentioned, his other business activities were not in line with where we were going in our business, we returned all the material and we ended any form of business relationship. We never got one going to begin with, other than reviewing this technology, and we realized there wasn't going to be a potential for it in the future.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

So there was never any payment for services?

[Rahim Jaffer]

Oh, no, absolutely not. That was the reason.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Mr. Glémaud, if you don't mind, I note that, in a registration you submitted to the Commissioner of Lobbying on behalf of the International Centre for Infectious Diseases, you said that you had never been a public office holder. Can you explain that statement?

[Patrick Glémaud]

First of all, I believe that question is outside of this Committee's mandate, based on the invitation we received. We are supposed to be talking about renewable energy and green funding. Therefore, I fail to see the relevance of that question.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

It is your credibility that is at stake. You say that you never registered as a lobbyist because you felt no need to do so. However, in that case, you did register as a lobbyist and you declared that had never been a public office holder.

[Patrick Glémaud]

Madam, that statement was made as follows: I had discussions with a potential client and the client asked me to perform work which, in my opinion, was lobbying. At that point, I decided to register, as a preventive measure. The following day, the client told me he had retained the services of another firm here in Ottawa.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

But you were a public office holder previously.

[Patrick Glémaud]

No, no. I did not engage in any lobbying on behalf of that company. It decided that I was not the right person for the job and retained someone else's services. Therefore, I had no opportunity to engage in lobbying, just as I had no opportunity to go back and correct anything in that statement.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—La Prairie, QC]

Thank you. I have one last question, Madam Chair.

Did you submit proposals to Mr. Andrew House, when he was Director of Operations at the Office of the Minister responsible for the Economic Development Agency for Southern Ontario? What arrangements did you make with the businesses submitting proposals, and why did you not disclose that meeting to the Commissioner of Lobbying?

[Patrick Glémaud]

First of all, I submitted no application to Mr. Andrew House. I had one meeting with Mr. Andrew House, along with another person, with a view to collecting information about the program for which Mr. Andrew House was Director of Operations. I knew absolutely nothing about the program, and I wanted some details. But I did not submit any application myself, and I ask that you produce evidence in that regard.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Ms. Coady, you may have a quick question, very quick.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I have two quick points.

First of all, Mr. Jaffer, on your personal website you do identify yourself as one of the founders of Green Power Generation Corporation. Just to let you know, you were differentiating, but you do recognize yourself as such.

I have a question, as well, for Mr. Glémaud. There was such discrepancy and concern about whether it was two or whether it was three. Mr. Jean said there were three applications, and you're saying there were maybe three, maybe two, and just executive summaries. Would you please provide those executive summaries to the committee?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

And a quick response, please.

[Patrick Glémaud]

That is something I have to discuss with the director of the investigation of the commissioner of lobbying. My understanding is I am supposed to be submitting documents to him with respect to his own investigation, so I will have to discuss this with him.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Would you submit the names, then? If you don't want to submit the documents, can you tell us the three names? Just let us know the names.

[Patrick Glémaud]

I am not at liberty to submit those names right now. This is something that has been referred to the commissioner of lobbying, and she decided to do an administrative review. You will have to wait until it's over.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Point of order, Mr. Martin, yes.