Evidence of meeting #11 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was business.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Bloc
Green Power Generation Corporation
—and the chair of caucus, I understand the importance of cabinet secrecy, caucus secrecy, and I made a point after I left politics never to ask my wife about what is going on in that capacity, nor would I tell her about businesses I was involved in, so as to protect her. That's simply an understanding that I have from my experience in politics.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Mr. Guimond, your time is up, I'm sorry.
I was going to ask for relevance, and I was just looking at the section. Mr. Jaffer, don't worry, we were looking at the relevance of the question.
Mr. Martin, for five minutes.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Rahim, your company's name is Green Power Generation Corp., but you don't really generate any green power with that company. In fact, I put it to you the only marketable commodity you have is the influence that you're advertising for sale on your website, with the Conservative Party logo next to it.
We all have copies of this now. So when you denied any knowledge that you were leading people to believe that you could secure support from the Canadian government and that you had countless relationships developed from your time as a parliamentarian, what is a client or what is a prospective company to believe when they see this promotion? It says to me that for a price, I can sell you this service, which is to provide access.
It seems to me you've gone to the Frank Moores school of government relations or something--influence peddling, offshore bank accounts, and holding out for the big score. There's either an equity share in the business you say you're developing or a contingency fee, which you should know is wrong as well.
Your former government just sued David Dingwall for a contingency fee that he got from that drug company for the ten-year vaccine contract. You can't go for contingency fees within the Lobbying Act. You can go fee-for-service. You can charge $600 an hour, like Don Boudria. That's pretty good money. You don't have to hold out for the big score.
Everything you've told us just paints an unsavoury picture, Rahim. As much as I like you as a person, this really disappoints me, and it doesn't do the image of parliamentarians or our parliamentary system any good at all when as soon as you get the opportunity, you get your nose in the trough worse than the people you used to vilify when you got here.
Green Power Generation Corporation
Mr. Martin, I am disappointed that you continue to allege things that you have no basis of truth for--
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Mr. Martin, I would ask you to respect the witnesses. They are here.... Let's ask relevant questions if we could, please.
Thank you.
Green Power Generation Corporation
I find it ironic that the one member who said he didn't want this committee to turn into a circus has now turned it into one, Madam Chair.
I think the crux of the matter and the only thing I can come back to say is that, specifically, our business as outlined under GPG's mandate is to look at new opportunities for new technologies in new markets and to work with those particular clients to see how we can access those particular markets. There were never any contingency fees that you speak about. There was never any involvement with government.
If you have proof of that, Mr. Martin, please bring it forward, and I'll address it. But there is absolutely no truth in what you're saying, and you're throwing around allegations that are very spurious. I can't believe you're doing this.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
What was the nature of the business that Mr. Gillani wanted you to undertake? You say you chose not to get involved with Mr. Gillani, and that's fine; I take you at your word. Was it a “pump and dump” scam that he wanted you to promote, or securities--
Green Power Generation Corporation
I'll respond to your question if you wish me to.
The initial reason we were introduced to Mr. Gillani was for a review of a technology that he may have done a deal with. He approached us to look at this technology. We looked at it--
Green Power Generation Corporation
Yes. We looked at it, and we thought the technology was good, but it was clear that the way Mr. Gillani was modelling his business, there was no way our business was going to go in that direction. We don't raise money to take companies public. We don't do any of this work. So that was his business.
In the end, he never compensated us for reviewing the material he sent us, so we decided that there were no synergies available here, and we backed away from the deal and backed away from the technology.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Well, you certainly left that meeting leaving Mr. Gillani with the impression that everything was fine and all systems were go. When did you formally inform him that you were not going to do business, that you weren't interested in his proposal?
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Well, there are two differing views of the meeting you had on that fateful night of September 10, I believe it was. You said you left that meeting not interested in doing any further business with him, and the very next day he was advertising to all of his friends, bragging perhaps--perhaps it was puffery--that you had a very successful meeting, and that he did want to do business with you, and in fact that the doors to the PMO had been opened for him. When did you clear that up?
Green Power Generation Corporation
I can't recall the exact dates, but the business potential of exploration didn't end that night. It had just begun a couple of weeks ahead when we were introduced to Mr. Gillani for, as I said, this technology.
NDP
Green Power Generation Corporation
Only to return the material he sent to us and to say that it doesn't look like we will have any involvement moving forward. I sent back that material and that was the end of it.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you.
We now go to Mr. Warkentin, for five minutes. You're sharing your time with Mr. Holder.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Thank you, Madam Chair.
Mr. Jaffer, not even an hour ago, I asked you specifically if it stated on your website that you would be able to secure support from the Canadian government. You said that it didn't. You made it absolutely clear. I don't think there's anybody in this room who heard it differently.
I have a copy now. I looked, actually.... When the news report came out, your website had come down. There was no cache of it. I hadn't been able to see it, so I was relying on news reports. You denied that those news reports were accurate.
I now have in my hand the biography, I guess from rahimjaffer.com, which states exactly that. It also goes on to talk about the important role that your former relationships, or the relationships you developed over your career as a politician, might avail you in terms of assisting in your current career.
I don't know why you would deny it if in fact it had been there. Clearly it was there when the reporter wrote the story, and then it subsequently went down. You must have been aware that there was something within that website that was untoward or not correct, or that at least appeared to be unethical.
Considering this, I don't even know what question I have. I mean, the evidence is before me. The statement is obviously untrue--at least it could imply unethical behaviour. What bothers me more is that we have you before our committee and you've stated, as a matter of fact, one thing and I now have a copy that indicates something different.
We all entered politics to do something good for Canadians. I don't doubt that this was your intention, Mr. Jaffer, but you have to understand that this type of behaviour sullies all of our names.
Green Power Generation Corporation
May I respond, Mr. Warkentin?
As I mentioned to you, and I'm glad you're clarifying this, we were discussing my business website earlier and I told you that on that website there is no reference to securing any sort of government support--on our business website. Now, there was some sort of reference to that on my personal website.
I tried to clarify.... The only explanation that I could try to give to you was that in reflecting on the experience I had as a member of Parliament working to secure support for different things--and I know what's happening, still, in my old riding with the community centre, the GO centre, or other things--we worked hard to secure government support to support these sorts of initiatives.
These websites are completely different in what they're promoting. My personal website talked about all my experience; my business website talks about what business we're trying to build here today. That's what I've been trying to explain to you.
I'm sorry if there's been confusion, because by no means has there been any type--and I can assure you--of promotion on behalf of myself or my partner that we can secure any sort of government support for anything. If that wasn't the case, we would have been interacting with government members, we would have registered as lobbyists, we would have done all the things that we would have done. But that's not the focus of our business. That's why it's not on our business website.
