Government Operations Committee on May 5th, 2010

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Thank you very much for bringing the temperature down.

The analyst has now provided me with the list, which you verbally suggested. You had Madam Guergis, Sébastian Togneri, David Pierce, Philip Welford, some Hamilton, Catherine Godbout, Doug Maley, David Woynorowski, Wright Tech, Ian Harvey, Jaffer, Paradis and Raitt, Derrick Snowdy, John Baird, and Minister Prentice.

So I'm not making things up, and I'm not taking any orders from anybody. This is simply what I get from the clerk and the analyst.

Mr. Martin, the floor is yours.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Thank you, Madam Chair.

I think, first and foremost, we should be offended as a committee that both of these ministers have chosen not to attend because they have decided that we have nothing to learn from them. How do they know what questions we're going to ask them? Witnesses don't get to decide whether they'll attend a parliamentary committee, based on their decision that they have nothing to share with the committee. That's not acceptable.

I think a letter should go from the clerk. I know we can't compel a minister to attend here, but we can voice our dissatisfaction and displeasure that they chose not to attend, seeing as they were both sitting there in question period today.

A letter, I think, should go from this committee to Lisa Raitt and Christian Paradis, expressing our displeasure and our dissatisfaction with what is tantamount to an insult to the committee.

But Brian Jean's office is right down the hallway. I think we should all attend Brian Jean's office. He has a nice boardroom there. We could simply pack up this committee and move down there. We'll visit him if he hasn't the courtesy to visit us. That would be one course of action that I could propose.

Other than that, I think we risk losing credibility as a committee if we don't at least give deference to the main mandate of this committee. I was part of this committee when it was created, when Reg Alcock was the first chair—the founding chair—and I was a founding member. We were all excited that finally some committee was going to give proper attention to the estimates process in Parliament.

We spend a lot of time on the public accounts committee analyzing money and how it was spent, but we spend almost no time analyzing what is proposed to be spent or if it seems justifiable or wise. It's half the name of our committee: it's the “government operations and estimates” committee. It would be really irresponsible to allow the main estimates to go by us without giving them a decent amount of time, while we're chasing down what may be an impossible task--some resolution of the Jaffer-Guergis affair.

That's all I would say. I think this is a very good list of witnesses. I don't know who wrote this one, but it's actually very good.

[An hon. member]

[Inaudible--Editor]

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

You did? Well, it's a very good list.

If we can ask the clerk to schedule and cluster these in appropriate groupings at appropriate times within the limitations we have, I think that should be up to the clerk to do. We could chase our tail for hours here, saying, let's give 15 minutes there and half an hour to this one on this date. That's not our job. That's the clerk's job.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Can I respond to that? The committee had instructed the clerk to call certain witnesses, and he did. There were options: to call ministers, to call Derrick Snowdy, to call Mr. Harvey, and—

[The Clerk]

No, not Mr. Harvey. It was ministers Raitt and Paradis, then Brian Jean and Jim Wright, and finally Derrick Snowdy--for May 5, this meeting.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Okay.

So he had that list, and when he called them, they told him exactly what dates they were available.

What I'd like to do is solidify the calendar, if we can, and look at what we can agree upon. If we want to have Mr. Wright on the date he has suggested—which is May 26—if we're all in agreement, can we all say “agreed” that Jim Wright can come? We had requested it. It's part of the committee's business.

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

So we'll have Mr. Wright on May 26.

Mr. Snowdy said he could only come on May 12, because then he has court appearances.

Can we agree that Mr. Snowdy can come on May 12? Later we can worry about timing, for an hour, etc.

Can that be agreed?

Yes, Mr. Holder.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

On a point of order, Chair, I want to come back to Mr. Martin's point before I can agree to that—that is, what about the estimates?

If that is in fact our day for estimates--we were advised that it was committed to by officials--and that's a basic premise of this committee, my practical question is are we going to be able to complete our task of completing the main estimates?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

The suggestion is that if we can have Minister Ambrose for May 12 for one hour, with her officials--

[An hon. member]

Ambrose?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Rona Ambrose: the Minister of Public Works and Government Services.

We would have her, with her officials, on May 12, on the main estimates, for the first hour, and Snowdy for the second hour.

Are we okay with it?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

So it's yes.

Is everybody paying attention?

Yes, Mr. Martin.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

My only point--Mr. Szabo and I were just talking--is that Mr. Snowdy is the key, principal instigator of this whole thing. We might need more than an hour to question him. That's my only concern with this plan.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Okay, Mr. Martin, we have a solution. We can ask Minister Ambrose if she can come on May 26 for the main estimates for Public Works and Government Services. At that time we can have Mr. Wright; we can give Mr. Wright one hour and the minister one hour.

[An hon. member]

Yes.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

It sounds....

Yes, Mr. Holder.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

On a point of order, Madam Chair, are we saying that May 10 is still reserved for main estimates?

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

I am going backwards.

[Ed Holder, Conservative, London West, ON]

It would seem.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Yes. Let's go backwards and see.

So what the witnesses...that have agreed to, we're going to let them stay. Then we're going to slot in our main estimates.

Mr. Snowdy requires two hours. So we will give Mr. Snowdy, on May 12, two hours. We will stick with that.

On May 26, Mr. Wright has one hour, and so does the Minister of Public Works and Government Services to do the main estimates.

Are we okay with that?

[Some hon. members]

Agreed.

[The Chair, Liberal, Yasmin Ratansi]

Everybody yes? Yes.

The question remains that we were doing our departmental freeze, and we have Correctional Services. The Bloc requested that we have Correctional Services and the Parliamentary Budget Officer.

We haven't really seen very much, so it's the PBO and Correctional Services on May 10.