Evidence of meeting #18 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was gillani.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
From your personal impression, how would you rate him as a lobbyist?
As an Individual
It would probably be pretty low, if he had intended to raise money for us.
Conservative
As an Individual
That was what we had heard: we were going to get a term sheet.
I don't know if it came from him or if it was Mr. Gillani alone who provided me with that representation. To this day, we still don't know if it was an independent representation or if it was a discussion those two had before we received the e-mail.
Conservative
Ed Holder Conservative London West, ON
Okay. I'll pass it over to Mr. Brown and he can have a couple of minutes, Mr. Chair.
Thank you, sir.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
First of all, we've seen the evidence of the business card. We've read about this in the newspapers as well. But it is ridiculous—I just wanted to say that—that anyone would use a business card long after having been dismissed from that position and role. There was clearly some dishonesty at play. You were obviously a victim of it.
I want to know a little more about the $300,000 that was deposited on Mr. Gillani's advice. Are you completely out that $300,000?
As an Individual
Our management group made an investment in our company that was supposed to be used for the purpose of helping him to raise more funds on the back of a management group with skin in the game.
When it came time for us to request that the funds be delivered into the operations of the business, we faced some challenges, to say the least. The funds never made their way into our business. It's now a matter that's being dealt with by the authorities.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
So I guess it would be fair to say that these individuals not only were good actors at professing to have lobbying contacts or the ability to have any access, but also, in terms of this venture capital, I'm sure you felt a bit swindled.
As an Individual
In retrospect, absolutely. We spent a lot of our time and effort trying to build a business with a pretty solid business model with a lot of people with experience and the need for retail outsourcing. And when it came down to us actually having to get the funding to operate our business, it came in dribs and drabs. Then by the end of May we were raising money on our own.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
Are there any other examples of dishonesty or misrepresentations that took place with these individuals to you and your company?
As an Individual
With respect to Mr. Jaffer, nothing other than I had mentioned.
With respect to Mr. Gillani, in hindsight, sure. Yes, I'd say there were a number of misrepresentations. But it's going to be up to the authorities to determine whether they were innocent misrepresentations or whether they were akin to something a little more aligned with fraud.
Conservative
Patrick Brown Conservative Barrie, ON
Are there any examples of those misrepresentations you can share with us that may not already be...?
Liberal
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Thank you, Chair.
Thank you, Mr. Harvey.
I want to start with this business card. And I thank you for bringing it, because others have indicated they crossed out... I guess it was Mr. Jaffer who told us he had used that card because he forgot his normal cards or something, and crossed it out. Clearly that's not true.
Seeing as you were interested in getting access to federal government loans, what effect would it have on you when Mr. Jaffer actually produced a federal government or a parliamentary business card? Do you think he was trying to give you the impression that yes, he is connected to the source of that money?
As an Individual
My feeling I took away from that was yes, that was the case, that we were linked in with someone who could get us hooked up with government funding. Sure.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
It might reinforce the impression that Gillani and he were trying to project that they would... Okay, very good.
I'm curious about the $300,000. Do you think Gillani saw that as part of his finder's fee, and was it ever expressed that way?
