Evidence of meeting #23 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was snowdy.
A recording is available from Parliament.
5 p.m.
Partner, Cassels, Brock & Blackwell LLP
I understand he testified to that. That's not what I told him. By the time he got to my office on April 9, the press were already reporting that she was resigning from cabinet. Mr. Snowdy asked me about that, and I told him all I could tell him was that I thought the Prime Minister was at the Vimy memorial that morning, so nothing was going to happen before that memorial was done. I believe that's the way I expressed it to him.
I would never make a statement like that.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Mr. Snowdy stated that you said this: I've spoken about these issues with the Prime Minister. Obviously the minister has been under other scrutiny for the last 18 months with respect to her other conduct issues.
What were the other issues you discussed with Mr. Snowdy around that?
5 p.m.
Partner, Cassels, Brock & Blackwell LLP
I didn't discuss them with Mr. Snowdy at that point, but in conversations with Mr. Snowdy, we did talk about her difficulties in the week leading up to April 9, that I just explained: the person from her office writing letters under a pseudonym, or anonymously, or whatever was done; the problems with her Elections Canada filing; and then obviously the mortgage issue and the way that, frankly, the Liberal Party jumped on that, quite likely inappropriately. Even Tom Clark from Power Play had to jump in and--
5 p.m.
Liberal
Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
You had several other conversations with Mr. Snowdy post-April 9 when he came to your office, including a couple of days right before his testimony here. Can you tell us about those conversations, please?
5 p.m.
Partner, Cassels, Brock & Blackwell LLP
That was the Monday before he testified. He and his lawyer, Mr. Groot, attended at my office.
5 p.m.
Liberal
Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Could you tell us about those conversations, please?
5 p.m.
Partner, Cassels, Brock & Blackwell LLP
I think it was more for Mr. Groot's benefit. He wanted the benefit of my understanding of the way committees work, and so I answered Mr. Groot's questions. And then Mr. Snowdy, of course, had some new information for me at that meeting.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
5:05 p.m.
Partner, Cassels, Brock & Blackwell LLP
I believe that's where I first learned about the China angle.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Okay, because I thought you said that Madam Guergis brought that to your attention; now you're telling me that Mr. Snowdy brought that to your attention?
5:05 p.m.
Partner, Cassels, Brock & Blackwell LLP
Ms. Guergis raised Dr. Chen. She did not raise the China trip.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Okay. Thank you very much for that clarification.
Now, all during this while, the Prime Minister was saying that Madam Guergis was doing a good job. I remember it, as I was in the House that day, a couple of days prior to her being removed or resigning from cabinet. Yet these concerns that you raise were going on prior to that. Could you speak to that? Could you add anything to that?
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Sorry; we are just clarifying whether the votes are at 5:10 or 5:15.
Please go ahead and answer the question.
5:05 p.m.
Partner, Cassels, Brock & Blackwell LLP
I don't think I can clarify that. It's not part of my role to scrutinize who's doing a good job in cabinet.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you very much.
Mr. Martin, I know that you have a question, or a point of order, but can I release Mr. Hamilton first? It doesn't concern him.
Mr. Hamilton, I thank you for being here.
I thank Mr. Dechert for his intervention, but he has to read a lot of parliamentary procedures...like Erskine May, Beauchesne’s, and O'Brien and Bosc.
We could, if we wanted to, have asked you to answer, but we decided not to. I think we have to reinforce that this is a parliamentary committee, a committee of the House, and it has a different procedure to follow.
But I thank you, and I thank my colleagues for keeping their questions such that you didn't have to violate any client-solicitor privilege.
The witness is free to go.
With that, I'd like to suspend for 30 seconds....
Oh, only five minutes are left?
Okay, Mr. Martin, go ahead.
5:05 p.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
I'd like to use one moment to ask that the committee agree that we give the chair the authority to issue the necessary summons to compel Mr. Jaffer to attend. I believe the logical date would be June 16, Wednesday next week, for a full meeting. We need him here as well for the full period of time.
So I think we would be back to the situation where Madam Guergis and Mr. Jaffer would be here at the same time. That would be my recommendation. But either way there has to be a summons, because I don't trust that he will come; even if he leads us to believe that he will come, I don't think he will come unless he's compelled to.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
On that, we're waiting for the documents to be translated, and I think they might be germane to the conversation we want to have. Do you have a report that tells us when those documents might be available to us? If we're summoning Mr. Jaffer, I think they might be germane to that conversation.
Secondly, I'm just worried that we.... I know that Mr. Jaffer has more documents.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
That was in that letter. I think we should be asking for those as well.
The date, to me, whether it's next Wednesday or some time before we conclude for summer recess, I think is important. I would like to have some documents, so that's why I'm asking the chair when we might expect those documents.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
I would remind the committee that last Monday the committee gave me the authority to issue a summons if Mr. Jaffer did not turn up.
5:05 p.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
So I have the authority. If we want, we will issue the summons.
On the date, if you just quickly go to Mr. Jaffer's letter, I want something from him. He is in contempt because he has not provided us with documents. He was supposed to have provided us with everything. If you go to the last sentence, his lawyer says he has more documents.
I would like to see those documents, and I think the best way we can do that is to send a letter to Mr. Jaffer's lawyer and tell him to provide us with the documents and ask him to come on the 16th or the 23rd.
5:05 p.m.
An hon. member
The 16th would be better.