Evidence of meeting #26 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 3rd session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was know.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Green Power Generation Corporation
I'm happy to exclaim, as proof shows, that I have no influence whatsoever in delivering anything, so I'm not going to be subject to that provision of the law.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Here's the thing. The problem is the code doesn't say if you are successful or not. The code says that if you pretend to have the influence, you are potentially guilty of influence peddling.
Giving out your MP card, using an MP's passport, and doing work out of a minister of the crown's office pretends to have influence in connections you don't have, does it not? I don't know how you can't see this.
Green Power Generation Corporation
If those things were accurate--those things are not accurate.
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
Oh boy, Rahim. We've looked through this. You said you didn't give out cards, you didn't use your passport. We find out that you did. You were asked at the April 21 meeting, did you have any further contact with Mr. Gillani after September 10? You responded no. We now know you met with him after that to plan various trips. Some trips were cancelled, some weren't.
It's hard to believe when you say you didn't do any influence peddling, you didn't do any lobbying. When the committee asked you specifically about connections to very important people in this case, you said you had no more connection with them, and then we find out later that you did.
Green Power Generation Corporation
Are you asking me specifically about interactions I had with Mr. Gillani, or are you asking me about influence?
NDP
Nathan Cullen NDP Skeena—Bulkley Valley, BC
We asked you very specifically, did you have any further contact with him after September 10? You said only to return material he had sent to you. We find out later in the timelines that you in fact met with him again and again after September 10. You came in front of this committee and you said you didn't have any more contact with this guy, and yet you knew you did.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Mr. Cullen, your two minutes are up. Mr. Jaffer can answer, and then I'll give the last one to Ms. Coady, and then we'll cut it off.
Only two minutes.
Green Power Generation Corporation
Thank you.
What I wanted to say was with the period of time that was determined after I had my incident in the news last September, I had withdrawn from a lot of the activity of my business--almost all of it, for a period of about a month and a half to two months.
From that period, it was my understanding that we were not pursuing...even though a contract was signed, which I was not directly involved with, with Mr. Gillani, business relations with him were coming to a close. That was verified to me in November with the document you will see when it's translated. There was a contract that was trying to be put forward for compensation with Mr. Gillani. He refused to sign it. We realized that the business relationship was done at that point, as I had maintained.
My timing was off on this, obviously because of what had happened to me. But that did not mean we cut off all communications with Mr. Gillani. There was no business done afterward. There were a lot of overtures from Mr. Gillani, and they came very short of materializing, including this trip to China that he said he was involved with. He didn't deliver on anything that he was supposed to, and I made my own arrangements to go with Dr. Chen.
There were many things that were talked about by Mr. Gillani, but our business relationship ceased. I think I originally left the committee with the impression it was in September. I was mistaken. It was a little later. It was in November.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
I would like the clerk to confirm. Did you receive the contract dated November 21?
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Okay, fine. It was received yesterday evening, so that's okay.
Ms. Coady, two minutes, and then we have to go in camera.
Liberal
Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
Thank you very much.
Something keeps troubling me here. As we talked about before, you were new to business and you were trying to establish your business.
As a business person, I always look at the earnings, how you make money and how you make earnings. I know you have a lovely new home, so you had to have had some compensation during 2009 and 2010.
So if we were to look at your T4--pull it up from the Canada Revenue Agency--what were your earnings? Did you have retainers, compensation, in some manner? How did you make money in 2009 and 2010, and what comprised those earnings?
Green Power Generation Corporation
Obviously these are personal questions to do with my finances, but I will answer them because I've got nothing to hide.
Green Power Generation Corporation
The bulk of my income during 2009 was my severance pay after my defeat here as an MP. With that--also, I sold my home that I used to have here in Ottawa--I had budgeted to make an investment into my company and to not have to worry about finances for most of 2009, even into 2010.
That pretty much has been depleted now, obviously, with all the work that we've done and some other issues that I had to deal with that I had to dip into my savings for.
I have no income currently. If you looked at my T4 from 2009, it would show you severance pay and very little other income that comes from some property I own in Edmonton.
Liberal
Siobhan Coady Liberal St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL
So no retainers--you weren't on retainer for any firm--and no compensation, per se, just your severance and so on.
Green Power Generation Corporation
That's right.
As I said, our goal...because I know you asked about our business model. It is a bit confusing, because, let's face it, we were new at this. I was an MP for 11 years. We were trying to develop a new business. I had been out of practice. We thought we were going about things in a prudent manner, not to take any money before we established what kind of business we were going to be in. We didn't anticipate many of these problems and bumps along the way that we've had.
So I have not received any income from my company or from the work that I've done so far.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you.
The analyst has just instructed me that he heard you say that the type of work that you and Mr. Glémaud were doing, others would get paid for.
He says, “Well, those are lobbyists.” So were you free lobbyists?
Green Power Generation Corporation
No. I said that a lot of work that we were doing was research for our own benefit to determine what kind of business we would do. We didn't want to charge anyone for our own need for knowledge and our need for experience before we established our business.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
Thank you, Mr. Jaffer.
Thank you, committee.
We have to go in camera to discuss further issues.
[Proceedings continue in camera]