Government Operations Committee on Oct. 19th, 2010

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

When will we have a final determination of the cost of the G-8/G-20, sir?

[Ward Elcock]

I don't know precisely when that will be, but in the case of Ontario and the City of Toronto and Huntsville, it will depend on when they actually submit those costs, and the auditing of those costs, which is required under the program.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Are expenditures still accruing to the G-8/G-20 summit?

[Ward Elcock]

No, I don't think any expenditures are accruing, but the final accounting hasn't been done yet.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

As you know, we hosted the 2010 Olympics this year, which featured 2,622 athletes, I believe, 82 countries competing in 86 events, multiple venues--nine competitive sites--and even at the opening ceremonies about 66,000 people were in attendance, including Prime Minister Harper, the Presidents of Estonia, Latvia, Georgia, Germany, the Vice-President of the United States.... In other words, there were a lot of dignitaries, including the Princess Royal. The total cost for security, as we understand it, was $523 million, and that was for almost the month of the Olympics.

Can you justify how we spent the $1.3 billion for a 72-hour meeting?

[Ward Elcock]

Mr. Chairman, on the $523 million, I don't believe a final number has been announced, although I think there was a story in the newspaper to that effect. Whether that's accurate or not, I don't know. In fact, the numbers for security were higher. I think the $523 million was only the number for RCMP security, which is only a part of the security bill for the Olympics.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

As you know, part of the parcel of the G-8/G-20 moneys went toward what I am going to call “legacy projects”. We had washroom facilities being built miles from the site. We had carved lighthouses. We had steamboats. We had gazebos. We had a number of what they are calling “legacy projects”, and then we had things like security costs, and that $27.5 million that was spent to rent, convert, and then dismantle a building in Barrie that was used for a temporary command centre.

Who made those ultimate decisions on how that money was going to be spent?

[Ward Elcock]

Mr. Chairman, in respect of security spending, which is the only part I can comment on, infrastructure spending was not part of the security budget. It's not included in the $930 million, so you'd have to go somewhere else for those numbers. We weren't responsible for those.

In terms of the security budget, the RCMP did have a command centre, the Integrated Security Unit, situated in Barrie. I believe they have in fact commented on the amount they spent for renting the building and setting up the facilities, which were required in order to provide security for the G-8 and the G-20.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

I'd like to turn this over to my colleague, Mr. Regan.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Regan, you have about two and a half minutes.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Thank you very much.

Gentlemen, thank you for appearing before us today.

I find it very disturbing that the cost that we in Canada spent amounts to a vast excess over what it has cost other countries to host meetings like this in the past. These are enormous costs that have been incurred at the expense of Canadian taxpayers.

But let me ask you a specific question. Just two weeks before the G-8 meeting, we read in the news that you hired Contemporary Security Canada, despite the fact that they were not even licensed to do work in Ontario. It was also reported, and acknowledged by government officials, that this problem was only discovered after the company had already been hired.

How did a company that wasn't even legally allowed to work in Ontario win a competitive bid to provide security at the G-8 and G-20 summits?

[Ward Elcock]

Mr. Chairman, Contemporary Security won the contract. It's my understanding that in fact the contract was conditional on their securing the requisite authorities, and in fact they did acquire the requisite authority to operate in Ontario before the event.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

What about the fact that other countries have held meetings at vastly lower cost than this? Shouldn't that be of concern to Canadian taxpayers?

[Ward Elcock]

I have been asked to comment on that in the past and I would say the same thing I have said before. The reality is that different countries account for the amounts they spend on those events in different ways, and some countries.... Canada is probably, and I assume it's to our credit.... We account for those costs in a more fulsome way than any other country that I am aware of.

[Geoff Regan, Liberal, Halifax West, NS]

Are you suggesting that, for example, the United Kingdom has managed to hide...that they have hidden costs of their G-20 meeting? They have an auditor general and in fact they have a public accounts committee as well as annual public accounts documents that have to be verified and signed off by the auditor general. Are you telling me that in the U.K. the government managed to mask the transfer payments and contributions so well that their auditor general would sign off on them and not realize what the real costs were?

[Ward Elcock]

Mr. Chairman, that's not what I said at all.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have about 10 seconds to answer that question.

[Ward Elcock]

That isn't what I said at all, Mr. Chairman. What I said was that different countries account for things in different ways. In some cases it can be as simple as how many police officers you have in the jurisdiction. In the case of the U.K., they can bring all of the police officers they need from London. In fact, people can be home for tea. In our situation, if we want 20,000 police officers, they have to come from across the country, and the various provinces from which they come have to be reimbursed for the costs when they are absent from duty. The situations are different. It's not a case of anybody hiding costs, but the ways in which costs are accounted are very different.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, Mr. Elcock.

Mr. Vincent, you have eight minutes.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good morning, Mr. Elcock and Mr. McGovern.

First, could you tell me what your mandate was in organizing the G8 and G20? I can understand that you were dealing with security, but I would like to know what your mandate was and what budget you had under that mandate to organize security at the G8 and G20.

[Peter McGovern]

There are actually two funding streams for the G8 and the G20. One covers security and one the organization of the meetings. Personally, I was responsible for organizing all the preparatory meetings, as I mentioned, the ministerial meetings, and so on. I—

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

That was not my question.

Mr. Elcock said in his testimony just now that he was responsible for security only. So, I want to know, for security only, what budget he started out with to organize the G-8 and the G-20. I understand that you held preparatory meetings, but there was a budget to keep to. When Ms. Coady asked about the rest of the organization, Mr. Elcock said that he was personally responsible for the security.

[Peter McGovern]

But I have to stick to a budget for organization too, Mr. Vincent.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Yes. What budget did you start with?

[Peter McGovern]

I started with $249 million.