Government Operations Committee on Nov. 23rd, 2010

[Paul Sauvé]

It's really quite funny. This was a restaurant that wasn't very posh or in very good taste. The Minister, who had hung up his coat on the coat rack, realized at the end of the evening that his cashmere coat had been stolen.

Ordinarily, I would not have paid any attention to that. I should say that, at the time, the Crown owed us $1,972,000 and was late with the payments. In spite of that, I continued to believe, against all odds, that this contract would come through. However, the following day, much to my dismay, his assistant called me to remind me that he had lost his coat and that it had been stolen.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Sorry for interrupting you, but who called you?

[Paul Sauvé]

I don't know his name. It was a young aide who was accompanying him, along with the chauffeur and bodyguard.

That person called to ask me to reimburse the coat and tell me that a certain size was available at Holt Renfrew. I lost my patience and repeated my hope that they had enjoyed the previous evening, other than this particular event. I basically hung up the phone on him. I was really insulted. I was quite indignant.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

You said that you didn't have much time to talk to Mr. Paradis, because he was quite busy with the Broccolini family. I take your word for that, and what's of interest to me are the 180 seconds you spent with the Minister, according to what you said. What did you use that time for? What did you want to talk to the Minister about?

[Paul Sauvé]

Well, I would actually have liked to talk to him about what I believed to be, not an injustice, but a serious error in terms of spending all this money for no reason. In my opinion, the Conservative government, which should be taking a simple and direct approach, could have been part of a new wave by adopting a new way of doing things, getting rid of all the red tape on the Hill, and having the construction industry perform work on the Hill that was honourable and in good taste.

I didn't have time to talk about the legislation. I only had 180 seconds.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Unfortunately, your time is up.

[Marc Lemay, Bloc, Abitibi—Témiscamingue, QC]

Will I be able to come back?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Yes.

Mr. Petit, you have eight minutes.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I will be sharing my speaking time with my colleague, Mr. Gourde.

I would like to come back to what I was talking about earlier when I was interrupted.

Mr. Sauvé, I am particularly interested in what you said. In 2009, you had problems with certain individuals linked to organized crime. According to what you said on television subsequently—several months later—there was a connection to a large central union body, the FTQ, which apparently had been infiltrated by the Hells Angels or organized crime.

Are you making the same claim today?

[Paul Sauvé]

What claim, exactly, Mr. Petit?

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Do you claim that the FTQ is linked to organized crime and has been infiltrated by the Hells Angels?

[Paul Sauvé]

I saw Jocelyn Dupuis, who was the president of that central labour organization at the time, and Normand Ouimet having dinner together discussing the construction industry. Prior to that meeting, Jocelyn Dupuis had clearly told me that without the protection and assistance of people like Ouimet, it would be very difficult to have as much support on the ground from emerging construction industry members with ties to the FTQ.

So, yes, I maintain that the FTQ and Hells Angels have had close ties throughout the lengthy history of the construction industry in Quebec.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Sauvé, are you familiar with an FTQ press release dated September 24, 2008, at the time when you were starting to have problems with Mr. Ouimet and the FTQ? Are you familiar with this September 24, 2008 press release?

[Paul Sauvé]

No, I don't have it in front of me.

[Daniel Petit, Conservative, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Can I read you something?

On September 24, 2008, the President, Mr. Michel Arsenault, his general secretary, René Roy and union vice-presidents put out a press release. I am quoting from La Presse on September 25, 2008: “The Fédération des travailleurs du Québec urged its members yesterday, not only to vote for Gilles Duceppe's party, but also to work for Bloc candidates on the ground”.

Do you really think I'm going to believe you? They're honest people. Where is the truth in what you have been saying? Are you still telling us today that the FTQ has within its ranks members of the mob and organized criminals? I know these people, and they would never have accepted that. Are you still making that claim today in front of the committee?

[Paul Sauvé]

Mr. Petit, I am a little disappointed to see you bring politics back into the debate in this forum. First of all, the dates would have to be checked as to when we were experiencing serious financial problems. The Quebec government and the City of Montreal both decided not to pay the cost overrun, which was a very heavy burden for our company. That was between 2004 and 2006. And that is the reason why we applied for assistance from the FTQ Fonds de solidarité and that people like Dupuis and Ouimet came into the picture.

If your question is intended to determine whether a political structure is being established in order to push me in a certain direction or get me to rail against a union, the answer is no.

I have had certain experiences. My family has been subject to unbelievable pressures. Despite all this turmoil, I am here today to answer your questions and those of your colleagues. It is clear to me—and this didn't just begin yesterday—that there are direct links in Quebec between the FTQ and the Hells Angels. If the FTQ has no desire to shed light on this, that is its problem, not mine.

I've seen it and experienced it. Following our application for assistance and the arrival of people like Ouimet, productivity on my work sites increased fivefold; it was like day and night. I saw my problems with the CSST disappear overnight, and Quebec Construction Commission officers no longer appeared to hold up our construction work. That was no coincidence.

In my opinion, it's part of a circle—a watertight circle. The people who are in that circle are engaged in collusionary practices and that has an extremely negative impact, not only on Quebec, but on the country as a whole. I can tell you that it has had an extremely negative impact on myself, personally, and on members of my family.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you, your time is up.

Mr. Coderre, please. You have five minutes.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman.

Mr. Sauvé, I want to come back to Mr. Paradis' $5,400 coat from Holt Renfrew. If he had wanted to encourage companies in his riding, he could have found something cheaper which would still have been very good quality.

Was it Marc Carrière who called you?

[Paul Sauvé]

I believe so.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

He was Mr. Paradis' aide.

There is a lot of money in your business. Was money circulating during the cocktail party?

[Paul Sauvé]

The contributions that resulted from calls I made to Glouberman, Gersovitz, Clavier and others were all made by cheque. I didn't see any envelopes or cash circulating during the evening.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Gilles Prud'Homme is the one who is going after Jacques Duchesneau right now. He is the president of the Conservative Association in Bourassa. Who are his friends? You saw a list. Who made the calls? He seems to be very closely connected to certain construction companies.

[Paul Sauvé]

I believe he called a lot of people who didn't pay. The Broccolini brothers, among others, did not, as far as I know.

Listen, I really can't say. It was a small room. The Minister came in late, and he was immediately cornered by Glouberman for five or seven minutes, or possibly ten. After that he went around the room, and I had barely three minutes to speak with him.

Who are Mr. Prud'Homme's friends? It's not clear to me who they are.

[Denis Coderre, Liberal, Bourassa, QC]

Mr. Broccolini told us that Mr. Padulo had sold him the ticket. He owns the Da Enrico restaurant.

So, you do not know who Gilles Prud'Homme's friends were?

[Paul Sauvé]

I have no idea.