Evidence of meeting #42 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 40th Parliament, 3rd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sauvé.
A recording is available from Parliament.
10:20 a.m.
As an Individual
I kept some little contracts to survive, but my main full-time...it was for my mother.
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
You say that you did some drafting of documents, sometimes, for some companies, and that your brothers have some companies. What type of business are your brothers in?
10:20 a.m.
As an Individual
One of my brothers is an accountant, and the other is an architect, but he's alone and has very small contracts. I don't know the people....
10:20 a.m.
As an Individual
I'm writing technical devices for him or some internal papers for him. I'm not involved in his....
10:20 a.m.
NDP
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
But he has to hire outside people to draft documents. That was your source of income.
10:20 a.m.
As an Individual
I write his technical devices sometimes for him, and that's--
10:20 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Is that your background, sir? Are you an architect or an engineer or a construction...?
10:25 a.m.
As an Individual
No, but I can rewrite. When you're a writer, you write things. I rewrite. He gave me the text and I wrote it for him.
10:25 a.m.
Gilles Prud'homme
He would give me the text he wanted and I would write it. Then he read it and made his corrections. If he wanted a doorknob of a particular size with a particular kind of keys, he wrote it. If he wanted a door of a particular colour, if he wanted a tile, he wrote it. Those are the things I did for him. It was small internal office jobs.
10:25 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Now, you've been placed right in the centre of the whole mess associated with West Block, in that--
10:25 a.m.
NDP
Pat Martin NDP Winnipeg Centre, MB
Yes, well, so I say from reading testimony, etc.
Now, Mr. Sauvé, after he paid $10,000 a month or sometimes $15,000 a month to Mr. Varin, got the wonderful privileged access to a meeting with not only the executive assistant to Pierre Claude Nolin, Mr. Pichet, but with the executive assistant to the Minister of Public Works, Mr. Bernard Côté.
By some happy coincidence, immediately thereafter, he's successful in winning this contract. He would have had no business if there were any due diligence whatsoever in the Department of Public Works. Mr. Sauvé, with a record of bankruptcy and an association with the Hells Angels, would never have been on the pre-qualified list, except for the happy coincidence that in a restaurant he stumbled into the Minister of Public Works' own assistant.
Then, to show his gratitude for getting the contract, he's supposed to arrange a cocktail party on behalf of the Minister of Public Works. They had changed, then, by a matter of few weeks. Mr. Fortier was gone. Mr. Paradis was in. And at your recommendation.... In order to show your gratitude for getting these contracts, you pay your tithe at the front end—your bribe at the front end—and then you show your gratitude in terms of a kickback at the back end.
You know, I come from the construction business. I've worked for some of the biggest and best construction contractors in the country. To me, the picture is obvious. If that's how business is done in your part of the world, and you're right at the heart of it, with no visible means of support for those three years....
Well, we thank you for your testimony.
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
10:25 a.m.
As an Individual
I'm not accepting that I'm involved in anything--that I was not part of and I—
10:25 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
You'll have to work that in on a subsequent round because Mr. Martin has exhausted his five minutes.
Mr. Warkentin, you have five minutes, please.
10:25 a.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Mr. Prud'Homme, thank you again for coming.
I think it's important that I follow up on Mr. Martin's questioning. Number one, I don't think there's anybody at this table who would fault you for taking time off from your work to care for your ailing mother. I think anybody around this table who had the means to do so would undertake anything to care for one's own ailing parent. We appreciate that and I hope nobody around this table would castigate you or undermine the contribution that you made to your own family. I certainly hope I can speak on behalf of all members at this table when I say that we appreciate the sacrifice you made, and I'm certain that your family is thankful for it.
Today your testimony is another testimony consistent with everything we've heard throughout this hearing: that there was no inappropriate political intervention as a result of any fundraising efforts in Montreal or any other place. You bring us additional testimony that's consistent with that.
The one exception is Mr. Sauvé. He was all over the map. In parts of his testimony, he was stating that he had hired Mr. Varin to get him a contract. Later on, when Mr. Coderre was questioning him, Mr. Sauvé said: “The fact is that, despite his huge networks, Mr. Varin doesn't deliver. We had major problems at Montreal City Hall. His contacts just are not enough. The same thing applies to Parliament Hill. If you ask me, it's a phony organization”.
He was referring to Mr. Varin's business, I guess.
Mr. Sauvé has contradicted himself. The facts have contradicted Mr. Sauvé's testimony and then again, your testimony, as well as that of many other people, has contradicted what we heard from him. We appreciate that, and I just want you to confirm again for this committee that no inappropriate political intervention was promised as a result of people attending the fundraiser that you organized.
10:30 a.m.
Gilles Prud'homme
No, there was no promise. Nothing. I wasn't even aware of his case. I have no interest in that. It was not in return for anything or for a promise. It was a fundraising activity. He had offered to sell some tickets. He sold more.
It is possible, in light of events, that we were naive. In any event, we will still attend all the cocktail parties. Things do not happen during those events because people pay.
10:30 a.m.
Conservative
Chris Warkentin Conservative Peace River, AB
I think it's important for the committee to be reminded that Mr. Sauvé was actually the low bidder on this contract. I can see that there would be a conspiracy theory, and it would be a believable conspiracy theory if somebody had given the highest bid, wasn't able to fulfill the contract, and still got the contract. But Mr. Sauvé's company actually came forward with the lowest bid.
Even his competitors.... I have quotes from the National Post from two weeks ago that have the competitors, EllisDon, saying that while this is an unfortunate incident, they don't believe any wrongdoing happened in terms of giving the contract. They believe that Mr. Sauvé underbid the contract and as a result of that is now paying the price in not being able to complete the project. But even the competitors are saying that no inappropriate intervention has been undertaken by anybody. I think it's important for our committee to end the fishing expedition that we've been on.
Obviously your testimony is very interesting to us at a political level. Today we found out that the Liberal Party has a “happy meal” program like at McDonald's; you get a trinket at the end of buying the meal. But what we find here is that they're actually.... When I go to McDonald's, I buy the happy meal for my child because there's a promise of a toy. They love that happy meal. It seems as if the Liberal Party is using the meal to entice you to become a Liberal, so they have the reverse type of organization happening. But I think it's interesting to learn that the Liberals do have the Liberal happy meal.
But really, that is beside the point. That isn't what we've come here to discuss today. It's very interesting, but that is about the extent to which we've learned new information today.
Thanks so much.
10:30 a.m.
Liberal
The Chair Liberal John McKay
Thank you, Mr. Warkentin. Possibly there will be a motion to present a happy meal proposal for the committee at some point.