Looking at it from a government perspective, when I was in charge of procurement, for example, when I worked for the Province of Alberta, for anything over a couple of hundred dollars, at my level of decision-making, I had to get at least three different quotes in order to purchase something. Taking a look at multi-million-dollar projects, that's quite complicated, and when we take a look at defence, that's a whole other ball of wax altogether.
The degree of separation between a senior manager, who we often talk to here as parliamentarians, and all of the layers down inside the bureaucracy of a department you say opens up a whole opportunity for corruption and collusion to happen. I'm going to ask you, do you think the penalties we have in Canada for fraud and collusion are strong enough to act as a deterrent?