Government Operations Committee on March 8th, 2011

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Monsieur Vincent, pour cinq minutes.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

I am going to share my time with my colleague.

According to your testimony, Ms. Hassard, Ms. Ouimet was appointed by the government. Is that correct?

[Patricia Hassard]

Yes, technically, the government nominated her. She went through a parliamentary approval process, and the government then issued an order in council.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

You also mentioned that 12 people had applied for the position. I am surprised to hear you say that those 12 people could not read, did not know what a job application was, nor what the criteria were. Personally, if I saw that job criteria advertised in the paper did not match my qualifications, I would not apply. So you are telling us that the 12 people did not understand the application at all, nor the selection criteria, and did not meet the requirements of the position. Is that what you are telling me?

[Patricia Hassard]

I'm saying that those 12 individuals self-selected to apply for this position. They submitted applications. Based on the screening, they did not meet the selection criteria. I don't know whether it means they did not understand the selection criteria or whether there's an underlying reason.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Who are the people who decided that the 12 applicants did not meet the criteria and that the government would look for someone else?

[Patricia Hassard]

They were screened in my office.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Could you tell us how the selection was done? Did you make the decision? Or did you get a missive saying that someone had already been picked, that the 12 applicants were not the best people, that they had found who they were looking for and she was going to be appointed? Did you get a missive like that?

[Patricia Hassard]

No, Mr. Chairman. I think the situation points out the need for a search firm in certain cases. They can provide services that allow you to broadly look for candidates and to ensure that you've had a good look at who's out there and what the skill sets are. I think there really is a lesson in that.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

If I understand correctly, a psychologist will decide on the next candidate. So the government is going to decide based on a psychologist's opinion. The same mistake cannot happen again. You can't appoint someone, make a mistake and then hand them a golden parachute so that they will not only leave, but submit their own resignation. It is easy to wash one's hands of the whole thing by turning it over to a psychologist who can put his stamp of approval on everything. Isn't that so?

[Patricia Hassard]

Mr. Chairman, I think I should reply to that by saying I may have oversold the psychometrics. It's only one part of the input into a decision that needs to be very well rounded to make the right decisions about people.

[Robert Vincent, Bloc, Shefford, QC]

Thank you

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

You have two minutes.

[Diane Bourgeois, Bloc, Terrebonne—Blainville, QC]

Ms. Hassard, I have been listening to what has been said around this table for some time. If I understand correctly, the government chooses the candidate. I think back to Thursday, June 4, 2007 when the parliamentary secretary to the Prime Minister's Office was at this table to ask questions of Ms. Ouimet, who was a candidate at that time. Now that you tell me that the government chooses the candidate, I see that the Prime Minister's parliamentary secretary was present because Ms. Ouimet was their candidate.

By the way, Ms. Ouimet played her role very well. When she came to testify, she knew how she was supposed to do the job. She changed her approach while she was in the position, meaning that she had something to accomplish and actions to take. Subsequently, when she left, she was given a huge lump sum to thank her for doing such a good job. Now we have Mr. Dion, the new interim Public Service Integrity Commissioner. As he is in an interim position, I don't think that it will be he who will be dealing with the 225 or so integrity cases that are pending—unless someone can prove to me the opposite. Where is this going exactly?

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Respond very briefly, Madam Hassard.

[Patricia Hassard]

Thank you, Mr. Chairman. I think I do need to respond to the assertion that the government chooses the candidate.

The government nominates an individual, and then it's Parliament that actually approves the person.

Concerning the acting commissioner, I understand that he is reviewing the cases that were done under the tenure of Madame Ouimet and that he expects to file a public report on that review.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Thank you.

Madam Hassard, Mr. Wild, Ms. Henry, we are almost out of time. On behalf of the committee, I want to thank you for your testimony. That was very helpful.

Colleagues, when I talked about the procedure, I did not realize that we had actually reserved time for committee business in the orders of the day. Therefore, what I thought was out of order is actually in order, namely Madam Coady's motion.

I will ask that Madam Coady move her motion, and in the time remaining we will deal with it.

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Yes, I did note on the agenda that there was some time left for committee business, and because we're starting our advertising study, I certainly want to make a motion today to ask for information. I don't think I need to read it into the record; it is available in both official languages. What we are requesting is the information that we will need to ensure that we have a robust study.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Is there any comment?

Did they get the motion?

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Yes. It's in front of you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Do you want to read it into the record?

[Siobhan Coady, Liberal, St. John's South—Mount Pearl, NL]

Sure.

It is that with regard to government expenditures on advertising for the fiscal year 2010-11, this committee requests that the Government of Canada provide it with the following information, by department, in electronic format, in five days: one, how has the money been allocated; two, what government program or service was it advertising; three, in what medium--print, radio, television, or other; four, what amount was spent; five, in what geographic area; and six, what was the total amount spent on advertising to date and the anticipated spending.

I'm sure all of that is available. We just need to have it pulled together and given to committee for our study on advertising.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Mr. Warkentin.

[Chris Warkentin, Conservative, Peace River, AB]

I suspect that five business days would not provide enough time for the respective departments.

Was it for every department and agency? Were there specific departments outlined? Who are we asking, in that motion, for this information?

[The Chair, Liberal, John McKay]

Go ahead.