Evidence of meeting #4 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 41st Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was programs.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Glenda Yeates  Deputy Minister, Department of Health
David Butler-Jones  Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada
Alain Beaudet  President, Canadian Institutes of Health Research
Jamie Tibbetts  Chief Financial Officer, Department of Health

11:05 a.m.

Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. David Butler-Jones

Again in terms of the details of the negotiations—and that's not my area of expertise—I think as a general principle people should know what they're working with. It doesn't matter what, whether it's asbestos or any other chemical or drug. It's always a good principle to have the least intrusive, most effective, with the fewest side effects, whether it's medication or something we use in different industrial processes—knowing what it is. That's part of the reason why there are declaration sheets in Canada for different materials used in industrial settings, as an example.

11:05 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

That concludes the time.

We have Ron Cannan for the last five minutes.

11:05 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Thank you to the minister and staff for appearing before our committee. There has been a broad range of issues and discussions this morning, and we appreciate your commitment to the health, life, and safety of Canadians. Next to the economy, it's the number one issue in my riding, and I think probably the other 307 ridings across Canada.

Madam Minister, you briefly talked about Alzheimer's disease. I wonder if you could expand a little bit to inform the committee what the government is doing in regard to MS and some of the neurological issues.

I participated Saturday in my riding, for example, and many others probably did the walk for ALS, something that is affecting more and more Canadians. I lost a dear friend not too long ago to this disease. Maybe you can enlighten us a little bit on the government's present position and what we're doing to help deal with the neurological issues.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

Thank you for that question.

Our government recognizes the impact of neurological illnesses on Canadians, which is why we have acted to support brain research and will continue to do so.

Our government has also provided funding for a four-year study of persons with neurological diseases, and the national population health study will also bring together the Public Health Agency of Canada and the neurological health charities of Canada. The first annual progress meeting was held this past year in March.

We also have heard a lot about CCSVI and MS. I was pleased to support the development of the ongoing national MS monitoring system, which will provide those with MS, health care providers, and Canadians with a better understanding of the disease patterns and the use of treatments.

We also established a scientific expert working group in monitoring and analyzing results of the seven MS Society sponsored studies already under way both in Canada and the United States. If the expert advisory committee advises in favour of clinical trials, our government, working with the MS Society in the provinces and the territories, will ensure that we fund the programs.

In terms of research into neurological illnesses, including Alzheimer's disease, as I stated before, Canada is taking the leadership role internationally. I was recently joined by the honourable Minister of State for Seniors to announce important investments in the area of more than 40 Alzheimer's research projects across the country. CIHR will contribute to that as well, through a research strategy to address Alzheimer's disease on an international global scale.

Building on this effort, Budget 2011 includes significant funding to establish that Canada bring a research fund in support of the very best Canadian neuroscientists. That's in Budget 2011 to go forward as well.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

What's the timeline for the expert advisory committee reporting back?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

On the...?

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

On the CCSVI.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

Oh, the....

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

Whether or not they are proceeding--CIHR funded this project and the studies.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

Yes. As I stated before, the MS Society of Canada as well as the United States are funding seven research projects.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

I just wanted the timeline.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

The seven research projects are reported to the scientific advisory committee and are working through that. I believe they are supposed to have a report....

11:10 a.m.

Dr. Alain Beaudet President, Canadian Institutes of Health Research

It's going to be June 8—very soon.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

That's what I understood. It's been the precipice. I appreciate that.

The other issue is a serious one. I had the opportunity to do a joint announcement with our health authority in UBC Okanagan. A variety of groups, first nations, see the alarming rate of obesity in their youth. They feel this could be the first generation that doesn't live as long as its parents.

I know it's a concern for government to have a healthy weight program. Maybe you could elaborate a little bit and inform the committee exactly what our government's initiatives are embarking on to deal with this issue.

11:10 a.m.

Conservative

Leona Aglukkaq Conservative Nunavut, NU

Thank you.

As I stated earlier, for the first time provinces and territories have agreed to a declaration to work collaboratively to address the issues of childhood obesity across the country. A number of projects are being rolled out by jurisdictions. Our government, through the Public Health Agency of Canada, is working with each jurisdiction to start addressing and working in partnership in the areas of research, diabetes prevention, healthy eating, the food guide--a number of initiatives across the country.

We're also working with the industry around trans fat. There are also other areas, like sodium and whatnot. Another area that I know some jurisdictions are quite interested in pursuing is the direct marketing of unhealthy foods to our children, just as the tobacco industry was targeting its products to our children for profit margins, of course. There is some work and awareness being raised across the country looking at the pieces that contribute to childhood obesity. The research on that work is quite exciting.

Perhaps I'll have Dr. Butler-Jones talk about some of the examples of projects that are currently under way to do that.

11:15 a.m.

Chief Public Health Officer, Public Health Agency of Canada

Dr. David Butler-Jones

As you identified, the risk is that this is the first generation not to live as long or as healthily as their parents. The work really is around how we get everybody to row in the same direction, whether it's industry in terms of marketing, the kind of production in terms of the value added to food, whether it's at the local level in terms of what's provided in school cafeterias, whether it's around education, or whether it's in terms of working with ParticipACTION and the provincial authorities around physical activity.

At one level it's very simple. The difference between the 10-ounce can or bottle of pop, when I was a kid, and the seemingly standard 20 ounces--15 pounds a year--if that's the only change, is one of those a day. So at one level it's very simple, but it's actually much more complex than that; otherwise we'd be ahead. By having ministers across this country now joined by their colleagues in sport, as well as their colleagues in education, looking at the after-school period, I think we're finally at the prospect that we're going to be rowing in the same direction, and we may actually be able to tackle this effectively.

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

So a holistic approach, then, looking at--

11:15 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

As reluctant as I am to interrupt this, as it's a good debate and an interesting line of questioning--

11:15 a.m.

Conservative

Ron Cannan Conservative Kelowna—Lake Country, BC

I was just going to say that I appreciate that because we have youth in our community and it's a holistic approach. I appreciate that. Thanks.

11:15 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

Excellent. We appreciate very much, Minister, your being here and staying with us. I understand you can only be with us for an hour and you've been here for an hour and 10 minutes already, so if you have to leave we understand.

With our thanks, if you could leave your departmental officials here, we can continue questioning them.

We'll suspend for 30 seconds or so while the Minister takes her leave.

11:20 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

We'll call the meeting back to order and continue the examination of the main estimates of the Department of Health.

The first questioner will be John McCallum for the Liberal Party.

11:20 a.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

Thank you very much.

Thanks again for being here.

I want to go back to where I was before, because I didn't quite follow the answer. It was a double question on aboriginal and Inuit funding, from pages 163 and 164.

I don't really understand why service delivery is improved if you reduce the number of categories. It seems to me that you can provide the information to us without necessarily affecting service delivery. Perhaps more fundamentally, it seems that the expenditures are growing less rapidly than the population—or at least according to the Assembly of First Nations.

Those are the two issues that I didn't quite follow the answers to from the minister.

11:20 a.m.

Deputy Minister, Department of Health

Glenda Yeates

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

I'm very happy to speak to this important issue. I think there are two issues: one is the amount of money, and the second is how it's displayed and shown in the estimates.

I'll start with the first question on the amount of money. The biggest change you will see in the estimates is because of the non-insured health benefits. They are supplementary benefits that we offer through Health Canada to first nations individuals. The largest components of that are for prescription and non-prescription drugs, and medical transportation for dental and optometric support, for example.

As the member notes, these are demand-driven programs, so as the population increases you will expect to see an increase in the amount. In fact, every year or two, depending, we look at the demand and the estimates and come up with a final estimate as to what we think the actual draw on the program will be. We're in the process of that as well. We typically get a base budget, and then we get money in the supplementary estimates that reflects the actual demand. But there's no change in the benefit levels for those programs for 2011-12. We expect to see--perhaps before this committee--the supplementary amounts in the supplementary estimates that will come in the fall.

The second part of the question was about the categories. I recognize that in these estimates there are changes that go in a couple of directions. The first one I will point the members to is on page 162. You can see that we previously portrayed the first nations and Inuit health programs--if you look at 2010-11--as $2.2 billion. They were portrayed there as one number. In a sense, this year, if we look again to page 161, we're showing that amount in three categories for 2011-12 . So there is the supplementary health benefits category that I mentioned--the sort of insurance program that is demand driven; primary health care--the second one--that tends to be our services for everything from public health immunization programs to emergency nursing services in remote communities; and then there's infrastructure support, which is support for the actual running of the services.

Rather than just showing the $2.2 billion, we have tried to give parliamentarians a better sense there by showing it in these three components. But as the member noted, on page 164 we're showing the transfer payments in these three big categories, because we think that better reflects the three particular program lines. But as the minister noted, we are taking the authorities down from what used to be 10 different authorities that ran these programs to three. That is very much in keeping with our desire to not essentially hamstring first nations communities in delivering the programs, because when we say it's precisely under this authority, we sometimes limit their ability to move the money where it's needed.

We are basically saying that if something is under the authority of primary care services, they have some ability, within all of the accountability frameworks we have in place, to move that money within that envelope. So we are reducing the authorities in that way.

11:25 a.m.

Liberal

John McCallum Liberal Markham—Unionville, ON

Thank you.

11:25 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pat Martin

You have 30 seconds left if you want to keep it brief.