Government Operations Committee on April 30th, 2012

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Thank you very much.

How much time do I have, Mr. Chair?

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

You have 20 seconds, Bernard.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

I have 20 seconds?

I won't try to fire a lightning question at you. Thank you for your time.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

If you don't mind, I'll use up that 10 seconds and just ask you to clarify what Bernard was getting at. The figure they use internationally is sort of the percentage of GDP. I know that with regard to overall development aid, internationally, they were striving for 0.7% of 1% as the figure.

Where are we in that figure now?

[Greta Bossenmaier]

I'm sorry, I don't have those numbers in front of me.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

It's 0.29%

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I'm sorry, John, 0.29%? You happened to have that figure on your magic machine. Fair enough.

Next we have John McKay. Welcome, John.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Thank you, Chair. We appear to have reversed positions.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I see that. I know.

I was probably a much better chair in the last Parliament.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I don't know about that, but you certainly are helped by a very able clerk.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Yes, we are indeed.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

First, with respect to CIDA's mandate, you give this paragraph with respect to CIDA's mandate, which is actually not true.

CIDA's mandate is set out in the legislation, the better aid bill. The bill says that your mandate is poverty alleviation, taking into account the perspectives of the poor, and consistency within our international human rights obligations. That's your mandate.

I'm kind of surprised that when you made your presentation you actually didn't reference yourself to the law. From there flows everything else. The bill was passed in the first instance so that we wouldn't be flavour of the day, whatever the minister felt was the specific interest.

I would take note of that and ask you in the future to reference the actual mandate of CIDA as set out in legislation.

The second issue has to do with the minister getting herself into a pack of trouble these days with respect to overspending, or spending money that is inappropriate.

Has the minister written a cheque back to the government?

[Arun Thangaraj]

Yes, she has.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Okay, good. Thank you.

Some people have done a significant analysis of the decline. In fiscal year 2010–11, ODA as a percentage of GNI was 0.34%. It's projected in the budget, over five years, to decline to 0.24%. Do you agree with that?

[Greta Bossenmaier]

I'm sorry, the question was do I agree with those facts?

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Do you agree with the analysis of the figures?

[Greta Bossenmaier]

I'm not sure what you're referring to. I don't have the same document in front of me.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

It's pretty simple. You take estimated ODA in 2010–11 at $5.5 billion and by 2015–16 it's down to $4.8 billion.

[Greta Bossenmaier]

I'm sorry, I don't have the same figures in front of me. I'd be pleased, if the committee should wish, to get back to you with the percentage of ODA over the last number of years—

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

You'd have to agree, though, that's a pretty substantial decline, from 0.34% to 0.24%—10 points.

I don't think that's an unfair question. I would have thought that would be right at the top of mind.

[Arun Thangaraj]

The challenge with any ODA/GNI figure is that it requires a multiple of variables. One is the actual level of aid. When we do that calculation, we adjust for currency rate, currency fluctuations, the rate of growth of the Canadian economy. It is very difficult to predict what the ODA/GNI ratio is prospectively. That's why we do it retrospectively for previous years.

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

I have two years of a retrospective here and three years that are prospective.

I'll leave the figures with you and ask you for your comments on them, because they strike me as accurate and they strike me as going in the wrong direction.

The second issue has to do with the actual—

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

On a point of order, for the answer to be accurate, could you provide the committee with where you're getting these numbers from, so that they know where you're getting the numbers from and can react appropriately?

[John McKay, Liberal, Scarborough—Guildwood, ON]

Sure. It's CCIC.

[Mike Wallace, Conservative, Burlington, ON]

Thank you.