My second question for you, Mr. Joy, is about financing. I'm with both gentlemen that this discussion should be about the risk transfer and sharing. Tell me if I'm wrong. Let's say there is a $100 million project that you're bidding on. Are the companies bidding on that job operating out of cashflow, or are they borrowing money to do the project and building into their bid the interest costs they would incur?
There's an issue about who can borrow less, but there's always going to be borrowed money in a project whether it's design-build or P3. Is that not correct?