Government Operations Committee on Feb. 13th, 2014

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

As I said, the President of the Treasury Board has already informed us, through the clerk, that it is more difficult for him to appear before the committee on Tuesday and Thursday mornings, but that he would be available on Monday, April 28, in the afternoon. He proposed discussing the main estimates, as well as a potential study that the committee has not started yet. It would be a study on open data. He suggested talking about the two topics at the meeting of April 28. That is the information we have from him. The open data study is not officially on the committee's agenda, but the president has definitely expressed an interest in appearing on Monday, April 28, in the afternoon.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Mr. Chair, I would like to make a helpful suggestion.

The President of the Treasury Board is not available on Thursdays because of a specific committee that he sits on, but he is available Tuesday mornings.

Can we swap the two dates that we've suggested where we had Public Works coming in on March 4? Why don't we have Treasury Board come in on Tuesday, March 4, and invite Public Works to come in on Thursday, March 6?

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Perhaps you know more about his availability than we do. We have to check whether the committee has no objection to swapping the meetings of March 4 and 6, which have already been scheduled.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Yes, if that's okay with you.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I think that solves the issue I raised.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Then it's settled.

I will now go back to Mr. Byrne's proposal. No decision has been made. It seems no one really intends to comment on that.

Mr. Martin, would you like to make a comment?

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

Speaking to Mr. Byrne's motion, the one thing about the government operations and estimates committee is that its mandate is expansive, and it has never really been tested. The outer limits have never been pushed or tested. If we're talking about the efficacy of government operations as it pertains to the public's ability to access services, I think that's absolutely within the parameters of our mandate.

I was part of the committee when this committee was formed years ago. We wrestled over the mandate. It was felt that it would be useful to have an oversight committee that kept track of the efficacy of government operations and its service to the public.

If that's what the Auditor General is drawing attention to, I think he probably knows what committee he should and should not be reporting to. If he thought that particular chapter fell within the purview of our committee and felt strongly enough that he wrote individual letters to the chairs of the committee, I don't see how we can ignore that. He's trying to tell us something.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Thank you, Mr. Martin.

It seems there is no consensus on the issue.

Mr. Byrne, you can move your motion so that we can have a more in-depth debate and eventually vote on this future study.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Well, I think it is valuable, Mr. Chair, to actually square the circle, because I would not want to leave this debate with an understanding or a conclusion reached that the Auditor General is out of reach for this committee. I think that would be very inappropriate and not consistent with past practice. I'll just read quickly from his letter to us:

Dear Mr. Dusseault: My Fall 2013 Report contains references to government programs that fall within your Committee's purview.

It's the view of the Auditor General, which I think is an opinion we can all respect, that the issue of access to online services is very much within the mandate of the government operations committee. He concludes in his final paragraph by saying, “My staff and I would be pleased to meet with your Committee...”.

This is pretty important stuff. The Auditor General notes that in the course of their audit they “focused on four large departments that each year provide...$125 billion in programs and services” to Canadians.

Mr. Chair, would the clerk or our research advisers be able to provide some indication as to whether or not the Auditor General meets with other committees or appears as a witness before other committees besides the public accounts committee?

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

We have no specific information on whether he appeared before other committees. We could check, but I don't think it would be a problem to invite him to appear, if the committee so wishes.

I am told that he has appeared before this committee before. An auditor general has appeared before this committee in the past.

Mr. Trottier, go ahead.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

Just in discussion with my colleagues, I think Mr. Byrne's.... The Auditor General is actually fairly convincing and experienced, so we'd be willing to have a one-hour or two-hour meeting and discussion. Could you break it down?

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

What I proposed for your consideration is a two-hour slot with one hour reserved for the Auditor General and the second hour reserved for representatives from Human Resources and Skills Development Canada, the Canada Revenue Agency, Veterans Affairs Canada, and Industry Canada, which are the four departments that were the subject of a performance audit by the Office of the Auditor General.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

That would be fine.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

On the same topic, go ahead, Mrs. Day.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

Mr. Chair, I do not have that letter and I don't think it was sent to my office either. To be on an equal footing with the other members, could I have a copy of the letter please?

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Actually, the letter was sent to me as the chair and to Mr. Byrne and Mr. O'Connor as vice-chairs. Our clerk Mr. Girard can circulate it in due course. He can also make photocopies right away. We can do that.

By the way, it seems everyone agrees that the Auditor General should appear for one hour. The same amount of time will be allocated for the departments mentioned in the letter from the Auditor General. So now we have to pick a date. I think the clerk can take the necessary steps to figure out a date that works for all those witnesses. We could actually suggest March 27, but it depends on the witnesses' availability.

Since all the members seem to agree with the date of March 27 for the meeting, we can add it to our agenda.

Mr. Byrne, go ahead.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

It would be followed by another hour with departmental officials. Would that be correct?

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

We will have one hour for the Auditor General and one hour for the departmental officials in question. Of course, that will depend on the availability of those people. At any rate, by then, I will be able to give you an update on the availability of the witnesses for the meeting of March 27.

Mrs. Day, the floor is yours.

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

I would like to propose that the committee carry out a study on the tendering process and the expenditures for the Champlain Bridge and other related projects. I want us to discuss all the answers we may receive, but have not received yet.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Could you be more specific, please?

[Anne-Marie Day, NDP, Charlesbourg—Haute-Saint-Charles, QC]

If I had my document with me, I could be more specific.

Unfortunately, I left it in my office. Give me five minutes and I can get back to you on that, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

Okay.

Mr. Trottier, go ahead.

[Bernard Trottier, Conservative, Etobicoke—Lakeshore, ON]

We haven't received a motion on that. I think that might fall under transport, infrastructure and communities.

There is a motion that tabled a couple of days ago. I'd like to move that motion. It's in both official languages and it's in order. I could read it if you'd like, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, NDP, Pierre-Luc Dusseault]

You could start by reading it. I think the motion has already been circulated.

[Pat Martin, NDP, Winnipeg Centre, MB]

I have a point of order.