Evidence of meeting #26 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 41st Parliament, 2nd Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was sets.

A recording is available from Parliament.

On the agenda

MPs speaking

Also speaking

Bill Joyce  Director, Operations Branch, Statistics Canada
Pierre Ferland  Chief Information Officer, Chief Information Office and Security Branch, Department of Natural Resources
Prashant Shukle  Director General, Canadian Centre for Remote Sensing – Geomatics Canada, Earth Sciences Sector, Department of Natural Resources
Ümit Kiziltan  Director General, Research and Evaluation, Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada
Guylaine Montplaisir  Chief Information Officer, Corporate Services, Department of Health
Richard Thivierge  Director General, Business and Systems Architecture and Deputy Chief Information Officer, Department of Transport
Brent Diverty  Vice President, Programs, Canadian Institute for Health Information
Yves Béland  Director General, Operations Branch, Statistics Canada

May 15th, 2014 / 10:15 a.m.

Director General, Research and Evaluation, Department of Citizenship and Immigration Canada

Ümit Kiziltan

We're very similar. In our case we also cannot make our source data directly available as is. So we aggregate our reports, our tables. Data sets are all aggregate data.

Regardless, even if it's aggregate, we need to deal with the smaller values to prevent identification of individuals, so we sometimes group smaller values. We mask them. In a sense, we drop certain values. We also have algorithms to randomly round data. As we round them, it helps to anonymize certain instances and also systematically at a different layer. Within the department we consult with ATIP colleagues to ensure that, again, we are respecting privacy.

This, of course, poses a challenge and puts a limitation on the type of response to different requests. Let's say we have received a very recent request through the TBS portal, where the clients can come and suggest new data sets they would like to see. We have separate data sets, for instance, on immigration category admissions to Canada. We also have source-country separate information. But the request, for instance, is to cross them, so when we cross them, we know there will be very small cells. As the challenge comes, we work on it, and that obviously delays a little bit our making this data available. What you're pointing at is definitely an everyday question for us.

10:15 a.m.

Conservative

Jay Aspin Conservative Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

Thank you, sir.

Mr. Chair, do I have any time?

10:20 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Very little.

You have 30 seconds.

10:20 a.m.

Conservative

Jay Aspin Conservative Nipissing—Timiskaming, ON

That's good.

Thanks, Mr. Chair.

10:20 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Ms. Michaud, your turn.

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Élaine Michaud NDP Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

My questions are for the Statistics Canada officials.

I think these may be more in line with your area of expertise, so you may know the answers.

Some witnesses suggested that it was important to have additional data at a more granular level, such as local data or data by industry. They would like public use microdata files, which are not currently available on the federal government's open data portal. The files are, however, available upon request from Statistics Canada free of charge.

Why are the public use microdata files not available on the federal government's open data portal or in the CANSIM database?

10:20 a.m.

Director, Operations Branch, Statistics Canada

Bill Joyce

Yes, absolutely. Thank you for the question.

Statistics Canada does have programs to allow access to researchers, to allow access to microdata files. In all cases, even with what we call public use microdata files, additional licensing restrictions apply. For this reason we can't apply a true open licence. We do apply some of the principles of open data. For example, these data files are made available free of charge.

The extra licensing restrictions prevent the merging of files. You've heard a lot about the open data community, about the concept of data mash-ups and merging and linking data sources. That's the one thing that we can't allow with our microdata files in order to protect the confidentiality of Canadians. So it's a question of the additional licensing restrictions that prevent us from considering these files as truly open.

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Élaine Michaud NDP Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

So licensing restrictions are really why someone would have to request them from Statistics Canada.

Now I have a question for the Transport Canada officials on data availability.

Do you have information about transport safety when it comes to airlines, trains and cars? If so, do you release the information on the federal open data portal?

10:20 a.m.

Director General, Business and Systems Architecture and Deputy Chief Information Officer, Department of Transport

Richard Thivierge

Thank you for the question, Ms. Michaud.

As I explained earlier, we constantly assess what can be released on the portal. That said, the data does exist.

Transport Canada puts out an annual report on transport safety. It lists, in chronological order, all the incidents and accidents for each method of transportation, as well as related statistics. We are in the midst of figuring out how we can release that chronological information on the portal.

10:20 a.m.

NDP

Élaine Michaud NDP Portneuf—Jacques-Cartier, QC

Is this data currently available only upon request? How accessible is the data to the public or those interested in it? One year after the Lac-Mégantic events, people have a lot of questions. Interest in that type of data must have increased. Is the data available? What criteria do you use to decide which data will be made public and which will not?

10:20 a.m.

Director General, Business and Systems Architecture and Deputy Chief Information Officer, Department of Transport

Richard Thivierge

Traditionally, Transport Canada has followed Statistics Canada's best practices—in other words, rules on confidentiality. A lot of information is assessed based on confidentiality and other criteria.

To answer your question more directly, I believe the last annual report on transportation was produced back in 1996. More recent data is available online. That annual report contains more than 200 tables and time series, and it is available on Transport Canada's website.

10:20 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Thank you, Ms. Michaud. Your time is up.

I will use my prerogative to ask a question. This is the last meeting scheduled to hear testimony related to our study.

My questions will be addressed primarily to the representatives of Health Canada and Transport Canada, since these issues concern them more. I would like to talk about the idea of having a portal that would pool data from various levels of government.

Different levels of government have departments that are very similar to Health Canada and Transport Canada. What do you think about the idea of setting up a portal that would bring together data from various levels of government? A number of witnesses have told us they would like to have access to data from different levels of government in order to cross-check it and carry out research that is more specific than that based on exclusively federal, provincial and municipal data.

10:25 a.m.

Chief Information Officer, Corporate Services, Department of Health

Guylaine Montplaisir

From a Health Canada perspective, most of the data we consume comes from either our partners or the different levels of government. As a health regulator, we produce a certain level of data and the other data is published directly by the provinces or through our partner at the table, through CIHI. We access data from the provinces through the data that we get through information-sharing agreements from CIHI, or directly from the provinces and territories.

Through the open data portal today, you can get access to the provincial and some municipal sites. Seeing them on a same site, I would see some definite value to Canadians, because today they probably struggle with the search engines trying to locate all of the information they're looking for. The more we move to a portal that is more integrated, the better off we're going to be. As a federal government, though, I can see this as a significant challenge with the provinces.

10:25 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Thank you.

Mr. Thivierge, go ahead.

10:25 a.m.

Director General, Business and Systems Architecture and Deputy Chief Information Officer, Department of Transport

Richard Thivierge

Mr. Chair, thank you for your question.

The federal government does have a presence and a role to play, more in terms of certain modes than others. As we know, in Canada, the highway system mostly falls under provincial and municipal jurisdictions.

That said, we are working with the provinces in a variety of areas to get an overall view, across Canada, of the four main modes of transportation—rail, sea, air and road. The idea of a common portal seems to be very relevant and is likely to provide major benefits.

That said, the project nevertheless presents some significant challenges. Similar practices would have to be established for the management of that website, be it in terms of data renewal frequency, adoption of standards or adoption of an identical taxonomy—whereby the same terminology would be used, either in terms of secondary or connecting roadways. All those challenges must be taken into account before we head down that road.

As I mentioned, we are already collaborating very closely on certain files. We are producing joint reports with provincial and territorial governments, including a report on the national highway network. That report is the result of a federal-provincial collaboration. The information has been posted on the website of the Council of Ministers Responsible for Transportation and Highway Safety and the Council of Deputy Ministers Responsible for Transportation and Highway Safety. This could provide an idea of what types of products could be made available on a common portal.

10:25 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Thank you.

Mr. Shukle, I see that you want to add something on this topic.

10:25 a.m.

Director General, Canadian Centre for Remote Sensing – Geomatics Canada, Earth Sciences Sector, Department of Natural Resources

Prashant Shukle

Basically, I only wanted to add that the road network that Richard is talking about, we also have that road network, which is negotiated with provinces and territories, and we actually get that. We're working with municipalities as well, currently 200 municipalities, to update that road network. That road network is one of the layers that we provide as part of the geospatial data, and it also includes rail networks.

10:25 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Okay.

Mr. Ferland, I ask that you be brief, since time is running out.

10:25 a.m.

Chief Information Officer, Chief Information Office and Security Branch, Department of Natural Resources

Pierre Ferland

Mr. Chair, the question you asked goes to the core of the open data initiative. Here is what we need to decide: will we be the institution that gathers all the data or the institution that makes this data available?

I would like to come back to a question asked earlier about the private sector's participation. In the case of significant demand, we expect the ecosystem outside our walls to understand that demand and pool the public and private information in order to build a consistent and cohesive product that meets the demand. The question is whether this will be done by the government, the industry or external stakeholders who will seize the opportunity and create the product for the benefit of Canadians and companies.

10:30 a.m.

NDP

The Chair NDP Pierre-Luc Dusseault

Exactly.

Thank you for your answers.

This concludes today's meeting in terms of all the testimony related to our study.

I want to thank the witnesses for being the last ones to come meet with us to share their departments' and agencies' expertise.

I invite the committee members to remain here for another 15 minutes to discuss committee business.

I will suspend the sitting for a few minutes.

[Proceedings continue in camera]