Government Operations Committee on April 28th, 2015

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Would it be part of the role or mandate of the Public Service Commission of Canada to conduct those kinds of analyses?

[Christine Donoghue]

The public service could contribute to it as the system manager, but it would not be the sole person nor necessarily the lead. It would probably be within the Treasury Board Secretariat, or what we would call the chief human resources office to conduct these types of studies. We are often the source of data, or a source of different types of evidence or information that we may find through our systems.

[Gerry Byrne, Liberal, Humber—St. Barbe—Baie Verte, NL]

Are you suggesting to the committee that you have provided such data?

[Christine Donoghue]

We provide a lot of data. Now, to what effect? I am not aware that the Treasury Board Secretariat is conducting such research. Any data that we may have provided could have been used, but I have no evidence to that effect and there is no indication that we have been asked specifically on that matter.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Mr. Byrne, your five minutes is up. Thank you very much.

For our next and last questioner, for the Conservatives, Ms. Wai Young. I would ask people to keep in mind we do need five or ten minutes at the end of the meeting to go in camera for planning purposes.

Ms. Young, for five minutes, please.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Thank you so much for your time and for being here today.

I had a question around the fact that you are, in essence, the human resources department of the Government of Canada. As such, how long do you keep records for? We heard earlier from the Integrity Commissioner, and the fact that should situations unfortunately happen, people are let go, etc. Can you tell me that once something is on record, how is that record assessed? Can people apply elsewhere from different departments, or are they kept on a permanent file somewhere? How is that whole process captured and managed?

[Christine Donoghue]

As I indicated earlier, we are but one component of the HR system in government. So we are pretty much the program area or the systems area per se. The human resources as a whole is definitely within Treasury Board Secretariat, with the Office of the Chief Human Resources Officer.

We do have information. Because of the types of programs that we run for recruitment, etc., we do have access to a lot of personal information, which we manage in a very high security environment.

Now exactly how we do it, Phil, do you specifically know?

This may be something that I would like to come back to you on, and send the committee a more specific response, because I wouldn't be able to tell you exactly the means by which we protect that information. I know that we do have a system in place to do so and we take that extremely seriously because we do hold a lot of personal information, but I would like to give you a more specific and correct answer as to exactly how we manage it.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Could you also, if you're going to come back to us with this information, provide information on both sides. First, of course, we want to protect the privacy of individuals. That's a given. But second, how do we share this information—or is it shared ever with departments that wish to hire this individual, particularly if there have been issues? Do you see what I mean?

[Christine Donoghue]

Yes.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

I was on the status of women committee, where we learned that when sexual harassment complaints are filed and proven, that in fact those records are expunged from somebody's record within 18 months or some such period of time. That concerned the committee quite a bit because instead of that record following that individual, we heard that the individuals weren't let go but tended to get shifted from department to department and would just perpetuate their sexual harassment activities. Their records would be expunged and it would be new all over again.

In short, what protections do departments or victims have within the public sector for that sort of thing? How are you protecting the public sector and ensuring that those standards are met and that that is not happening within the whole system, because I think that the different departments do look to you as setting the standards and having that level of expertise, if I may say.

[Christine Donoghue]

The standards would actually be set by Treasury Board and not by the commission. The commission would only have access to information on the employability of an individual, when it comes to essential qualifications, or if a person is part of the priority system that we administer. But when it comes to the HR file of an individual with all of the personal information or whatever, if there were victims of situations, or if there were management issues pertaining to the individual, the commission would not even have access to that information.

So it is very much within the scope of the Treasury Board.

[Wai Young, Conservative, Vancouver South, BC]

Earlier I think we heard from the integrity commissioner that if it were proven that somebody had done something and they had to leave or were fired from the civil service, basically that would not follow them. If they moved to another part of the country, they could reapply and they'd be starting all over again. Is that what you're trying to say?

[Christine Donoghue]

It's hard to answer that question. The only information we have is when there's actually a complaint within the scope and the responsibility of the commission, and when we actually assess a situation for wrongdoing. But it's always in the context of a hiring process or a processus d'embauche, a staffing process. We hold that information, or if somebody made a complaint, then we would actually through our pouvoir d'enquête and be able to acquire information.

Based on that information, commissioners make a decision on whether or not corrective action should be taken. That information is within the scope of the commission. What we often do through our corrective action is to prevent people from applying again within the public service, because they were found responsible for fraud, such as cheating on an exam or falsifying documentation. That's why I was saying that the information that we hold is very much linked to their employability. By being able to direct that information to the deputy heads, we have the means to inform them that there are specific conditions put on the future employability of a person.

But anything else is within the scope of the deputy heads or the Treasury Board.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

I'm going to have to stop you there.

Thank you, Ms. Young.

I also want to thank the acting public service commissioner, Ms Donoghue, and your colleagues for being with us here today.

We're going to suspend the meeting briefly while you excuse yourselves, and then we'll go to an in camera planning meeting for a few moments.

[Christine Donoghue]

Thank you.

[The Chair, NDP, Pat Martin]

Thank you.

[Proceedings continue in camera]