Evidence of meeting #10 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was investigations.
A recording is available from Parliament.
NDP
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Plans and Consultations and Intergovernmental Affairs, Privy Council Office
Indeed, that would be the course, in the estimates pertaining to the relevant ministers and organizations supporting the process.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
I have a quick question on the advisory board for Senate appointments. How much is going to be spent supporting that through the Privy Council Office this fiscal year?
Deputy Secretary to the Cabinet, Plans and Consultations and Intergovernmental Affairs, Privy Council Office
I believe in supplementary estimates (C) there was an investment of—
Deputy Chief Financial Officer, Corporate Services, Privy Council Office
—$700,000. We came to this committee.
For Senate appointments, it's a perfect example of the misalignment between the mains and our supplementary estimates. Our mains were prior to the submission being approved for Senate appointments. Therefore, we could not include this amount for fiscal year 2016-17 in our main estimates. We will be coming back to this committee with a request for additional funding of $1.4 million for the advisory board regarding Senate appointments.
Conservative
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
Hello, everyone. I would like to thank all the witnesses for being here today.
My question is specifically for the representatives of the Transportation Safety Board.
There was some question of a reduced budget for investigations into pipelines. In your report on plans and priorities, you mentioned communications a number of time. First of all, what is the link between investigations and communications when the goal is to improve oversight of safety and prevention?
Moreover, aren't investigations and prevention part of the same administrative unit? If so, can you elaborate on this? If not, I'd like to know what the link is.
Finally, did the communication process mentioned in your report already exist or is it something new?
Chief Operating Officer, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
First of all, our mandate is to investigate incidents. Other agencies are responsible for the oversight of the pipeline network and other modes of transportation. In the case of the pipeline network, the National Energy Board is responsible for oversight and protection.
Our contribution to prevention is after the fact. When an accident occurs, we investigate to determine what happened and why, and how we can prevent the same thing from happening again. We make recommendations or issue safety advisories.
We use different formats and methods, including safety advisory letters, safety bulletins, and recommendations in order to communicate with the industry and with regulatory bodies in a timely manner. So we don't necessarily wait for an investigation report to be presented.
In the case of less detailed investigations, we can issue safety bulletins. We observe the situation in the field, do a summary analysis and communicate our findings so that corrective measures can be taken.
So there is a combination of methods.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Do you see a link between these communications, the investigations conducted and the preventive measures taken, for instance, by the National Energy Board? Is there a link between the number of incidents and prevention measures?
I also note that your budget is fairly stable, even though it is reduced in some cases.
Chief Operating Officer, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
As I said, over the course of the year, we share the resources among our various programs depending on the number of investigations required. If fewer investigations are conducted in aviation, more resources will be allocated to the pipelines or rail sectors. We redistribute the funds.
The figures in our annual departmental performance report always differ from those in the report on plans and priorities. We cannot accurately predict the number of accidents and investigations that will take place. So we redistribute our funds if necessary to make sure we have sufficient resources to do the work as the need arises. We also have a mechanism in place to obtain additional funding, as was the case with the Lac-Mégantic disaster or other major incidents.
We have not analyzed the link between communications and the number of accidents. We can say, however, that we follow up on all of our recommendations and all our safety bulletins. We report our findings in our departmental performance report. We also produce a separate report, our annual report to Parliament, as is required under the act, in which we indicate the results achieved. We try to close the loop and report on results.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Thank you.
The report shows upcoming retirements at your agency, specifically in the aeronautics sector.
Are the investigators multidisciplinary? Can you assign them investigations in more than one sector or is the work assigned by the type of investigation?
Chief Operating Officer, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
We have two groups. Some people are specialists in their field, be it aviation, rail, marine or pipeline transportation. We also have a group of engineers and experts on human factors. These people are assigned where they are needed to provide the appropriate technical and scientific expertise. They go where they are needed, depending on the investigation.
As to retirements, the average age in our agency is rather high compared to the rest of the public service because we hire people with many years of experience in industry. Extensive knowledge of the field is needed to conduct investigations. For instance, we can't send a university graduate to conduct an investigation in the field. Because people join the agency at the end of their career, turnover is always high. Attrition is fairly high and fairly consistent. Through succession planning, we try to manage the turnover and make sure adequate resources are in place.
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
In other words, you don't train people to become investigators because the people you hire are at the end of their career.
Chief Operating Officer, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
We do offer training for investigators, but the people who join the agency are experts in their field. They might for instance have spent 25 years of their career in aviation and then become experts in that field. When we hire them, we spend about two years training them as investigators and then they spend about ten years with us before retiring.
Liberal
Liberal
Ramez Ayoub Liberal Thérèse-De Blainville, QC
Are you concerned about that 50%? How will you manage that in the coming years?
Chief Operating Officer, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
We are concerned about it, but, as I said, we are working on succession planning. We conduct recruitment campaigns to create pools of pre-qualified candidates. We can then use the pools to quickly replace departing employees. We also have a knowledge transfer program that allows us to hire people in order to double up employees in certain key positions. This allows for knowledge transfer from departing employees to new hires.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
Ms. Fox, you said earlier that you had made five recommendations in August 2014 following the Lac-Mégantic tragedy. You said that Transport Canada had implemented one of those recommendations and that the department it is working on the remaining four. Could you elaborate on this?
We have a bit more time now.
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
Yes.
Transport Canada responded very quickly to the recommendation that rail companies have assistance plans in the event of leaks or loss of dangerous goods, especially oil and gas. There was no such plan before the Lac-Mégantic accident. The minister at the time responded to this recommendation immediately, and we determined that the response was fully satisfactory.
We are however still waiting for action on the four other recommendations. The first pertains to class 111 tank cars. For years, the TSB has said that these tank cars are not strong enough to contain their cargo in the event of an accident. Last year, Canada and the United States introduced stricter standards, but it will take some time for all these tank cars to be replaced. We determined that this response was satisfactory. These people have a good plan, but we are still concerned about the time it will take to implement these new regulations.
The second recommendation pertains to the risk analyses that rail companies must produce when they carry large quantities of dangerous goods, including flammable liquids. Here again, Transport Canada has required companies to produce risk analyses.
Conservative
Steven Blaney Conservative Bellechasse—Les Etchemins—Lévis, QC
Is it also true that they must share these analyses with the cities whose rail lines they use?
Chair, Transportation Safety Board of Canada
No. The rail companies said they will produce these plans or risk analyses for Transport Canada, but they will not share them with the cities. The cities want to know how much and what kind of dangerous goods are being transported through them.
