Government Operations Committee on Nov. 9th, 2017

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

First of all—and Yaprak will assist on this as well—we can all agree that the situation with Phoenix is totally unacceptable, and we're working to fix it. The frustration we have now in terms of some of the collective bargaining agreements, after having negotiated in good faith, is to see that the system is facing more challenges.

I believe there's been a strengthening of the governance and the reportage around Phoenix, and we're making progress.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

But I think the question for these people, who currently are getting paid well and who are on a payroll system that works, is why they would be transferred onto a payroll system that by the government's own admission is really not working, and why the transfer of their payroll wouldn't be delayed until such time as the government can provide assurances that the payroll system will function.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I'm going to ask Yaprak to reply.

[Yaprak Baltacioglu, Secretary of the Treasury Board of Canada, Treasury Board Secretariat]

This question came to me in the last few weeks, and I asked exactly the same question because unless we can have the assurance that their pay won't be interrupted, there's no particular need to put the employees in hardship nor to add further pressure to the Phoenix system. You are right.

I was asked that question and that was my answer. We're working through it.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you. I am very glad to hear that. I had written the minister on this issue some time ago and didn't get that clear an answer.

Can I just understand from the minister, then, that there is a commitment not to transfer them onto Phoenix until such time as the issues with Phoenix are resolved?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

We're working on it, and as Yaprak said, that's what—

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

That's basically what my question was, and I haven't received an answer.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I'm going to take that as a “yes” from the minister, unless he says “no”.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

There's a reason why Treasury Board Secretariat is one of the top 100 places to work in Canada. It's because of Yaprak Baltacioglu.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I'm going to call that a commitment not to transfer civilian members over to Phoenix, unless you object.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I can tell you that if—

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I'm not hearing an objection.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

We don't want to add to the burden of Phoenix right now at a time when we're still working through the problems. It makes sense, and so I would agree with your assessment.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

On another related matter that has to do with categorizing employees and potential cost to government, there's an issue for employees of Canadian Nuclear Laboratories who are looking at being transitioned out of the public service pension plan that they've been a part of for a very long time. I understand there have been discussions with Treasury Board, the Prime Minister's Office, as well the natural resources minister and his office about whether or not those employees would be allowed to continue in the public service plan.

My understanding is that if they did, there would be no significant cost to government, as it's already in the contract that the employer is responsible for providing some kind of pension plan. Can you confirm that there are no significant cost implications for government if those employees stay within the federal plan?

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

A decision to transfer their pensions was made on this one. Very recently, I had pretty senior representation from the union, and I took on that I will get back to them. I don't have a good enough answer for you, but I will get back to them.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Have you done an assessment of what the cost to government would be in allowing them to remain in the plan?

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

I'm sure the costing is done, but I just don't have it.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Okay. Could you provide that to the committee in writing?

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

Could I first figure out what we have, and then if we have it, we will?

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Once you have it, you could provide it to the committee.

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

Yes.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much. Do you have a sense of a timeline?

[Yaprak Baltacioglu]

No, not really. I already have a commitment to get back to a union leader. I will get back to her first, and then we will report back.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

All right. Thank you very much. I look forward to that, when you have it.

One of the questions we got into a little earlier with some of your senior department people was about the money in the estimates for wage increases for folks in the Canadian Armed Forces. I understand that approximately two-thirds of that is for ongoing cost increases.

This week in the news, we heard that the Canadian Armed Forces has made some cost-containment decisions that, unfortunately, are going to land on the shoulders of injured soldiers, particularly those who are in special operations and are paid a premium for the nature of the work they do, and the danger involved in the work they do. Whereas before they would continue to earn that premium if they were injured after six months, now the Canadian Armed Forces has decided to terminate that extra part of their salary for the nature of the work they do.

I wonder to what extent you or Treasury Board is involved in those kinds of cost-containment decisions. Is there any relation between the fact that salaries are going up, and a new salary cost-containment measure is being introduced around the same time?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

There are a couple of things.

First is that clearly we want to do everything we can to demonstrate respect for the men and women in uniform who defend Canada's interests here and abroad.

Second, the chief of the defence staff is responsible for the administration of the Canadian Armed Forces policies. The Minister of National Defence has asked him to look into this, and that's being looked into now.

I can't give you any more clarity on that now, but my colleague Minister Sajjan has asked his chief of the defence staff to look into it.