I'm just going to follow up on what Mr. Willy said. I've been around the block here for quite a while. Obviously my colleagues have been around quite a bit. We've had some pretty interesting interactions with deputy ministers, ministers, chiefs of staff, and there has to be a will. If there's a will, there's a way to move it. Echoing this gentleman's comments, it's frustrating when someone tells you that you have to band together.
I want to highlight another good example that could have occurred. I used to be on the board of directors at CBC. By being on the inside, I was able to get them at least to do a procurement policy that dealt with aboriginal people. It was a modest one. Whatever their budget was, they were able to open it up to $1.3 million to $3 million at the time, but that was huge.
Still, you had to be on the inside. I had to talk to the CFO at the time and explain how this works.