For the record, with Australia, it was one department. It wasn't the whole of government and not even the whole state government. It was just one department, so there is a big difference in talking about the federal apparatus and talking about one department in one state in Australia.
Regarding this issue of letting go of expertise, Mr. Ferguson, I think this is something that is part of the culture in government when we think about savings and cuts. We have to be very wary of letting go of experts whenever we're trying to do any kind of transformation. It is a very dangerous thing to do, before we are sure that we have succeeded in whatever transformation we are aiming at.
Do you agree with that as an important factor?