Evidence of meeting #147 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was hiring.
A recording is available from Parliament.
President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees
In my group, we don't really have a whole lot of knowledge about that. Maybe Debbie can help me.
Do you know something about using...?
President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees
Yes, I did, and it was only very briefly and it was with consultation with Debbie.
Deborah Cooper General Counsel, Canadian Association of Professional Employees
To be fair, like Chris Aylward, I've been sitting on the Public Service Commission joint advisory council for the last five years. There have been a number of issues that have been raised about veterans being able to have access to jobs once they're into that priority entitlement but there are pieces that they are missing.
If they're missing one or two pieces in the whole picture, they're not going to get hired. Often language requirement is something that can come up. Although it's not necessarily a massive issue for the CAPE membership, it is an issue overall, and it is something that's a barrier to not only veterans but also other priority entitlements who are missing those pieces.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
How much of that is Ottawa based and how much of that is rest of the country based?
General Counsel, Canadian Association of Professional Employees
In terms of who is on the—
General Counsel, Canadian Association of Professional Employees
For language issues, that statistic I'm not aware of.
They do release those statistics every couple of months from the PSC in terms of how many people are on the priority entitlement list and where people are moving, whether it's from disability, veterans, whatever the case may be. It can even be relocation of a spouse. There's a whole bunch of different priorities that are there. Yes, it is a national issue.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
My next question is for Ms. Daviau as well as Mr. Phillips.
We talked about the overly complex system. What can we do to get rid of that but still maintain a fair hiring system?
We've heard about it taking 200 days, which is absolutely ridiculous. I was not an accountant in my previous life but I have been an HR manager. Imagine it, 200 days is mind-boggling. What are we doing that needs to be deleted? You talked about security clearances and that. Surely, there's some of that we can rid of to speed things up.
How do we do so and still maintain it being fair and transparent?
President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees
We both have something to say.
President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
I honestly believe that there are some parts of that process that you have to maintain, that you could simply speed up or make more efficient or less bureaucratic. Certainly, there's a lot of red tape or bureaucracy in that process that could probably be looked at in terms of streamlining.
Again, I do believe that it takes a certain amount of time to choose the right candidate for a position, so you need to start earlier so that at least the essential parts of that process can continue and you can still have your resources on time. I don't think that resourcing should be an afterthought that comes in at the end of your planning cycle.
As I said, creating government-wide pools might be a way to go about....
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Have the pools that exist now gone through a lot of the screening already or are they just sitting—
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
The people who are in the pools right now in the process, have they gone through security checks, and this and that?
President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
Yes, exactly.
President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
They have gone through the entire staffing process. They've been checked for language and security requirements. They meet all the criteria of the position. They've been interviewed. They've gone through an entire staffing process to get into that pool.
Conservative
President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees
I like the idea of pools. These pools have an expiry date. You have a candidate. They have met all the criteria, have gone through the interviews, have scored, and as a result, they're in the pool. But sometimes these pools expire in a year.
I know some managers can extend that period of time. Coupling with what Debi said earlier, if you have government-wide pools that stay for a long period of time.... Just because I'm qualified today, that doesn't mean in a year I'm no longer qualified for that promotion.
President, Canadian Association of Professional Employees
If you extend the length of that time period and open it up to a wider period.... We often hear of pools that expire, and everybody who was sitting in the pool just leaves and then has to enter another competition. That's a major problem.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I want to get back to what we were discussing with Mr. Aylward about the fairness and transparency in terms of speaking up when there is an issue.
I think, Ms. Daviau, you appeared before the committee when we were discussing the PSDPA, the Public Servants Disclosure Protection Act, and whistle-blower protection.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Members put in a unanimous report, and it hasn't been acted upon. How much of a detriment is it not having any real protection for whistle-blowers?
I was down in the United States. They're light years ahead of us, and they're still complaining about very little protection. We're at the very bottom of the OECD for protection.
President, Professional Institute of the Public Service of Canada
We believe that to be a major issue. Where it pertains to staffing, certainly where there is abuse of authority or fraternization, or whatever, there needs to be the ability for people to raise red flags without getting themselves into trouble. That's what that whistle-blowing protection is all about.