Government Operations Committee on Nov. 27th, 2018

[Carolyne Blain]

We'll start with cars.

[Nick Xenos]

Yes, starting this April 1, 75% of the administrative vehicles we buy are to be hybrid or zero-emission vehicles. That does not include national safety and security vehicles, so in this case, it was national safety and security. It was also before the April 1—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Can I interrupt for two seconds?

In the previous study, we looked at security exemptions. We heard that to get around PSPC, departments were using them to buy paper clips. Literally, they were buying paper clips. We heard about buying jackets for the Syrians. They were using security exemptions. The departments have a history of using exemptions for whatever reason they wish, so they can get around the rules.

Are we back to this again with the purchase of the cars? Seriously, are we using a security exemption for a Rogue? A Nissan Rogue is not exactly an armour-plated car needed for security reasons, for them to go around government policy....

[Nick Xenos]

I think that's a great point, because we don't want to use national safety and security if it isn't really that. We do want to tighten that definition so that it's clear, on fleet, for example, what national safety and security is.

I'll give you an example of how it works. David's group has the standing offers on fleets and vehicles, so my team and David's team work closely together. If somebody, starting April 1, wants to do a major buy that doesn't conform to the greening government strategy, David will put a call in to me, and we will discuss with the department what's—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Can we be assured that we won't have a repeat of the G7 issue?

[Nick Xenos]

That's the aim. The other thing, though, just to get ahead of the curve, is that we do have an interdepartmental working group of fleet managers, so that they're really clear on the greening government strategy and where we're going.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Who literally takes the lead? We heard last time that TBS is supposed to be greening government. Natural Resources, again, in their departmental plans, say they're providing federal leadership on greening government.

[Nick Xenos]

Yes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Who's actually in charge? When we have shared responsibilities, as we've seen with Phoenix and so many other things, without one person being accountable, nothing actually properly gets done. Who's in charge with this?

[Nick Xenos]

Treasury Board is leading the implementation. Each deputy minister will ultimately be accountable for what every department buys. In each of the areas we look at, we do have expertise in departments that we don't replicate. For fleet and telematics, for example, Natural Resources Canada has expertise in their office of energy efficiency to do the analysis of how to optimize your fleet. Similarly, with buildings, they have expertise in energy efficiency and energy. We rely on the expertise in various departments that's embedded in their different programs.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay.

Ms. Blain, I'm looking at your departmental plan. PSPC is the only one of all of these that actually has set goals for the greening of government. One of the goals is with respect to the percentage of suppliers that rate the purchasing process as simpler and easier. At the same time, we have this contradictory one that 40% of purchasing should be green. We've also seen other rules layered in for community benefits, etc.

How are you balancing that and making it simpler? We have a horrible system. How do we make it simpler at the same time as we're layering in these issues? Have we studied what the actual costs of perhaps achieving that 40% goal are going to be for taxpayers ?

[Carolyne Blain]

In terms of simplification, you're absolutely correct. One of our key commitments is absolutely to simplify procurement. Through our procurement modernization initiatives, we've endeavoured to undertake a number of specific areas that will target more simplified processes and approaches. We are even looking at how we can simplify the way we build contracts, and the types of clauses and conditions that are embedded in our contracts. Right now, we've seen examples of contracts that are over 200 pages—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

We've heard that from others; trust us.

[Carolyne Blain]

—and how we can bring that.... There is a study under way that is quite promising, in terms of endeavouring to bring that down quite significantly.

In addition to looking at our contract clauses and conditions, we're looking also at different processes and electronic tools. I mentioned in my opening remarks about—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

My question is about how it contradicts adding in the green—

[Carolyne Blain]

I'm coming to that.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It's just that we're short on time.

[Carolyne Blain]

We're simplifying, but you're right. We're also looking to lever procurement in order to support greening objectives and other socio-economic objectives that the government has. The solution is to make it simple for our procurement specialists in departments and with PSPC to have a means by which they can embed those different requirements in the tools we already have in place.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you.

[Carolyne Blain]

It's a challenge, but it's absolutely doable.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you.

Mr. Blaikie, you have seven minutes.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

Thank you very much.

I find these conversations most helpful when we're talking about concrete initiatives. In terms of the greening government strategy, what would you say are the top three projects for reducing government's greenhouse gas emissions? Which three will have the biggest impact.

[Nick Xenos]

I would say the first thing is buying clean electricity by 2025. There are solutions—market-based solutions—there and the innovation in the market has moved very quickly. That's a really cost-effective way. That's number one.

Number two is working with departments to come up with a portfolio plan, an overall plan on how to get to the low-carbon target. It's not one individual project here or there. Rather, it's understanding all of the different initiatives they can take over the next 20, 30 years, and making sure they don't miss any opportunities, for example, in doing a major retrofit or in building a new building. That's the second one.

The third one is putting in concrete outcomes, so every new building has to be net zero ready. Every fleet purchase, starting April 1, of administrative vehicles has to be 75% green. You're getting very simple, outcome-based targets that will green real property and fleets.

[Daniel Blaikie, NDP, Elmwood—Transcona, MB]

I appreciate that the strategy covers all of government, but I'm wondering if the greening government strategy has a budget. I don't necessarily mean a budget for the staff who are working on that, which I appreciate is happening across departments. I'm thinking of a capital budget.

I respect that those projects are going to come out of departmental budgets, but I wonder if you guys have an overall budget you're working within. For example, if department X is retrofitting one of its buildings, an overall budget would be almost like a second set of books that would tell us how much government is willing to spend on retrofit, increased costs for new buildings, or other projects.

[Nick Xenos]

Yes.