The easiest thing could be on the test bed in smaller departments. It's easier to move Fisheries—though it's also a big department—than to move DND, for example.
There's more innovative culture there. That's the type of place where we could have lower-hanging fruit, no doubt.
As she said, the procurement process is extremely complex and very tough to change. We're trying to repaint the walls, but we have to rebuild the house.