Government Operations Committee on Feb. 4th, 2019

[Joyce Murray]

Okay, excuse me. My question was different. It wasn't about a specific project. It's about government doing what we're doing, and how we can use that to stimulate innovation in the broader economy. Given that we're now talking about people, it's very important to building automation systems that the operations and maintenance have qualified people, and perhaps certifications that are standardized across Canada, if not further.

Perhaps BOMA would have some thoughts about whether there's a gap there. Should we be paying attention to that as a federal government, or is the industry naturally providing the skills training and certifications?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Unfortunately, that will have to be food for thought, since we're completely out of time.

We'll now go to Mr. McCauley for five minutes.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'll stick with the BOMA ladies. I just have a couple of quick questions for you. When we're looking at greening government, you mentioned there are certain provinces that are blessed with an abundance of hydroelectric power. In Alberta, where I am, it's mostly coal. Would we be best served focusing on those provinces that are heavily reliant on coal, to upgrade those first before we start playing around or moving to other jurisdictions within the country?

[Hazel Sutton]

That's a fantastic question. I want to refer you to a wonderful study that was done—I think Mr. Whalen referred to it earlier—by the Canada Green Building Council. They assessed specifically where the opportunities are for retrofits in the country to reduce our greenhouse gas emissions. They did a study where they analyzed the consumption per province—how much consumption there is in all the buildings in each of the provinces—but then also what the GHG impacts are for each of those.

Their recommendation was based on this very visual graph that shows right away that there are definitely provinces that have significantly higher GHG impacts. Maybe that could be a really good place to begin, starting to make these retrofits and to invest in renewable energy. In provinces where there's already a very low GHG emission—as with Quebec, Ontario, Alberta, Manitoba, and B.C., thanks to hydro—the government could focus on other aspects of retrofit that can also help buildings consume less.

Definitely, yes, you should focus on the largest emitters first.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm just trying to get Mr. Whalen's electricians back to work.

I have two last quick questions. BOMA obviously represents a huge number of building owners and operators across the country, including many who have multiple buildings. Those with multiple buildings that they manage or own, where are they going with retrofits?

[Hazel Sutton]

They are fully investing. We have many companies that have their entire portfolio in. At this point, it's a race to see who's going to have the most buildings.

What they're benefiting from is having this overview of exactly how their buildings are performing, and then being able to specifically target which building needs the most help. They then distribute that money, budgeting over long periods of time for the capital retrofit, changing over which building is going to get the attention. Basically, every building will benefit from small adjustments, but if they figure out which ones are the biggest emitters, which ones consume the most, then those ones should have the priority of large capital retrofits, like a new boiler, for example.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I know you may not know this, but is there a clear trend from the large owners and managers in terms of what they are focusing on?

[Hazel Sutton]

Do you mean in terms of specifically which initiatives they're targeting in their building?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Yes. Is there something that is widespread, where everyone says, “We're doing this”?

[Hazel Sutton]

Energy is by far the most popular thing to do.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Is that energy reduction?

[Hazel Sutton]

Yes, exactly. That's where the operating costs will be reduced right away. You don't see that as much with waste diversion. Everybody starts with energy, then water, and then waste.

Lighting retrofits are one of the biggest, most popular things that buildings will do to see a huge reduction in their consumption right away. Then they'll usually apply those savings to other areas, like diverting waste.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I have one last question for you, and it doesn't necessarily have anything to do with greening government. I noticed a change in building codes, allowing higher office buildings to be wood-framed. Do you see that as an issue, instead of the traditional way, being able to do wood now above four storeys? Does that affect greenhouse gas emissions or the efficiency of the buildings?

[Hazel Sutton]

I'm not qualified to speak on that topic. We work with existing buildings, not new construction. Personally, I do think it's very exciting to see how wood-framed construction is being used right now for tall buildings, because it is that embedded carbon that you get as a benefit from the wood. Unfortunately, however, I can't quite speak to that.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay.

Is there anyone else who might know? Oh, excellent. I wanted to play stump the host, and I won.

[Voices]

Oh, oh!

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Anyway, thanks. That's all I had. Thanks very much for the information.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you.

Madam Ratansi, you have five minutes, please.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you very much.

I'm just going to go to BOMA.

Within the whole greening government strategy, how can industry leverage it, or how can government leverage what you're doing? I think Madam Murray asked you that question. Can you give me both sides of the coin, please?

[Hazel Sutton]

How can industry leverage what we doing with—

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

How can it leverage the three-pronged strategy of the greening government initiative, in terms of energy efficiency, waste management and water reduction, or how we can learn from what you're doing?

[Hazel Sutton]

Absolutely. Victoria, feel free to share some thoughts.

Our position is buildings, so we're looking specifically at how buildings are operating. The assessment allows you to understand as a baseline how the building is performing, to be able to zero in on where the biggest opportunities are. The program could absolutely help leverage the strategy in terms of starting to provide that framework, that benchmark, to provide the real data so that you understand how your portfolio buildings are operating.

If the question is also in the reverse—how we can leverage your strategy—the fact that you're leading the way with this great strategy means that we can also encourage other small to medium building managers to understand that this is a very important initiative and that they should be paying attention to this as well and learning from your best practices, so we could help communicate that.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

You stated that there are 150 federal buildings that have come for certification. Do you have a tool you use to certify? Is that something you can share with the government?

[Hazel Sutton]

Absolutely. BOMA BEST is the tool. It is a 180-question assessment that assesses those 10 areas I mentioned earlier. That is effective. That is the tool we are providing to give an overview of how the buildings are performing. Those 150 buildings were entered only two weeks ago, I think. We'll be working with them, not as a consultant, but just to help them through the process. The building manager will be assessing each of those buildings, one by one, to see how they're performing in all the different areas, and to be able to improve on that.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

How long does it take to do the assessment or the audit of those buildings?