Government Operations Committee on April 1st, 2019

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Yes.

I'd be curious to find out what the practice in the private sector would be. Again, I don't know what the statistics say, but I know anecdotally that even though they will have financial security, they will still change because they're just bored out of their minds. They can't stand it; they have to go somewhere else.

How do you balance that within the Government of Canada to ensure that there are proper pathways and a path forward in that environment where there is the security in knowing that yes, there is that pension plan at the end of the day when you've worked x number of years within the Government of Canada?

I don't know if there are any barriers to changing from one collective agreement to another.

Mr. Borbey, maybe you want to jump in there.

[Patrick Borbey]

I think you are making some excellent points.

We are the biggest employer in Canada, but we're also the most diversified employer, and we're one that has a high degree of mobility. I report on the mobility rates in our annual report, which are actually trending up. That means that somebody who starts their career in the public service does not have to stay in the same department, in the same kind of job. If they want to explore different ways to serve their country, they can go work in a region. They can work internationally. They can leave their field of expertise completely and learn a different kind of field. There is a lot of opportunity.

I think we can feed that kind of appetite for diversity that young people want.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

How does training fit into that?

I ask because we're telling kids in kindergarten that by the time they graduate, 65% of the jobs in the private sector will not exist. I'm assuming it's probably similar in the Government of Canada.

[Patrick Borbey]

Yes.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

How do we fit that particular training program and comfort potential employees to say when they come to work with us, they're going to get training opportunities? If they're ever bored in their job, they'll get to go somewhere else and succeed in whatever they want to do.

[Patrick Borbey]

Yes, and reskilling is an extremely important investment that the government has to make. We know that the labour force of the future is going to be very different from what we have right now, and we have to help our current generation of public servants make that shift.

We also have to be more open—again, externally—to get some of that talent that already exists out there in the private sector, and not try to duplicate that inside. I'm thinking about areas like data analytics. Tons of great people are coming out of our universities and colleges right now who can contribute to it. We need that talent.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

Madame Poliquin, maybe I'm seeing, as you mentioned—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You are out of time.

[Francis Drouin, Liberal, Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON]

I'm already out of time? I told you I needed seven minutes.

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

You were so close to it.

Perhaps Mr. McCauley will be able to finish by following up on some of your comments.

Mr. McCauley, you have five minutes please.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I want to get to page 14 of your departmental report.

I have a quick question about the hiring of vets. There's a part from the priority entitlements for the medically released that we know about: “All qualified veterans must be hired ahead of other candidates in processes open to the general public”. Where does that fit with other priority hiring that we direct toward disabled, women, first nations, etc.?

[Patrick Borbey]

Employment equity is different from the priority system.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Right. It says here that vets—not the medically discharged ones, but the regular everyday vets—must be hired ahead of other candidates, but is that ahead of—

[Patrick Borbey]

Preference.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

—everyone, but below the equity hiring?

[Patrick Borbey]

Yes. If you have a qualified vet and you have a position available, that vet must be offered that position first before anybody else. That's the preference provision.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Except for those who are in the equity preference.

[Patrick Borbey]

No.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

No? So the vets are first? And they'll only know about it if the job is advertised, so if it is kept in-house...?

[Patrick Borbey]

No. All the jobs for priorities are made available to them. We have a system to share. Whenever a job comes out, before it's advertised, it has to clear the priority system. Therefore, the vet will have the chance to bid for it before it even goes out.

By the way, that's one of the fastest ways to staff a position.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That's great.

I'm dealing with a vet on this, but this would actually apply to any Canadian. The vet applied for a job, their resumé accepted, and they went before a hiring board—the 55-day process. There were three of them. They sat there for an hour-and-a-half interview. They passed. They were put in a hiring pool that would to be valid for 90 days. It turns out they really didn't have an opening, but they were looking for candidates in case something opened.

Ninety-five days passed and he saw another opening—this is for a CR-4 level positions—and reapplied, and had to go back before the hiring board again. He was there 94 days ago. He was told he had to do it again.

This time he flunked, even though he had written down the identical questions. Everything's the same, but he flunked and didn't get into the pool.

Why are we creating pools for jobs that don't exist? I'm not blaming you, but why would we have a system where we ask people to go before a hiring board repeatedly? What would change in 91 days that would make someone qualified and then unqualified? It's for the same department and same position.

[Patrick Borbey]

It's hard to comment on a specific case, but we know that pools are sometimes used quite well, and sometimes they're abused. Sometimes pools are created and managers don't intend to use the pool except for maybe the top one candidate they wanted.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

When would a pool be worthwhile?

[Patrick Borbey]

Pools can be an extremely useful tool if you know that a number of positions are going to become available. If there's a little uncertainty as to how many of those positions there might be, then you have, let's say, a dozen candidates in a pool, but that pool should be drawn as a priority because you've invested all of that time in creating it.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

The issue of the pools came up, I think, the last time you were with us. It may have been PSAC or someone else—I can't remember which—who spoke quite strongly against them, or else they were talking about one large pool. Once you're approved, you stay in the pool, period. Are you looking at this pooling system right now as part of your ongoing efforts to improve our hiring?