Government Operations Committee on April 29th, 2019

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Okay, and would public service managers accept that as a guideline for...?

[Kiran Hanspal]

We're promoting it. We're educating managers. This is a fairly new tool, and a lot of innovation has happened in the last couple of years.

Now we're getting the word out. The interdepartmental working group we have for the public.... I'll ask Libby to speak to the private sector element, but for the public sector, it's all about the engagement now: engaging the management community so they can see these tools, so they can see how easy it is to hire a veteran and to understand their skills and competencies.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

How advantageous it is too.

[Kiran Hanspal]

Pardon me?

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

How advantageous it is to hire a veteran.

[Kiran Hanspal]

Exactly.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

Do you have any numbers on the progress made in hiring veterans over these past five years, for example? Are there any kinds of statistics on this?

[Kiran Hanspal]

Yes, the Public Service Commission gathers data on the hiring of veterans across the public service.

In Veterans Affairs Canada, we have also had progress with our aspirational goal. For example, before the Veterans Hiring Act, there were about 141 in total who were hired from 2012-13 to 2014-15, and from 2015-16 to 2018-19, in total we hired 10,459.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

That's 10 times.

[Kiran Hanspal]

So it's making progress, definite progress.

I would suggest that you may wish to invite the Public Service Commission. They can provide more insight into this data and also provide insight on the practices of other departments.

[Alexandra Mendes, Liberal, Brossard—Saint-Lambert, QC]

On the civilians, if you don't mind—the translator and the civilian applications of skills—how do veterans manage to translate their skills into the private sector? That was what you were—

[Elizabeth Douglas]

Thank you for the question.

In terms of the private sector, we're really starting this work with the private sector. What we're finding is that very large companies are coming to us looking to hire veterans. We're also finding, as my colleague previously alluded to, that sometimes veterans who have undertaken a certain role within CAF do not want to pick up that same role after the fact.

This is a new area for us in terms of external hiring. It's something we're going to be working on, and something over the next year that we can come back and have a far better story for you as to what's going to happen.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

We'll now go to Mr. Albus.

Welcome to our committee. You have five minutes.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair. Thanks to the members of the committee for having me here today.

I'd like to thank our witnesses for the work they do for our great country.

I'd like to start first with the aspirational target that has been set by the deputy minister. It's my understanding that July 1, 2020 is the date that he set. Is that correct?

[Kiran Hanspal]

Yes.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

How is that coming along? It's 14 months and a few days away. Where are we right now, at 10% of total VAC staff?

[Kiran Hanspal]

The target was set in June 2017. At that time we had a base population of 2,272, and 5.9% of our population in the department were veterans.

I just want to highlight one thing. To determine who are the veterans amongst us, the veterans have to self-identify, but it's not mandatory, and not everyone wants to self-identify. I just want to highlight that.

Since then, with all the measures, and using the 2,272 as my base population, as of December we hired 165 veterans. We are at a population of 165 but again, we did a self-validation exercise. We sent out an email and what have you.

It's moving. It's 7.3%.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

I'll ask you about that 7.3% again. We get more granular as we go along and understand some things, and I understand that there are always dangers in setting goals, but if you don't set something, then you don't try to achieve.

Of that 10% aspirational target, is there any sort of breakdown of x number in entry positions and x number in managerial or senior positions, or is it just that we don't care where as long as we have 10% of the total staff?

[Kiran Hanspal]

It's 10% overall.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Could you maybe let the deputy minister know that that might need to be examined? I don't think Canadians want to know that 10% of the staff are entry positions. I think, when we say we want to support veterans and we want to see the department have veterans, we also want to see them in a decision-making capacity, if possible.

I know public servants work very hard to do all the things that parliamentarians and government ask of them, so could you just pass that message on?

In regard to the career transition, I'd ask the same question. We know that if someone has four years, they can expect x amount of money, just over $41,000. If it's 12 years of service, it goes up proportionately, and that's great.

What's the annual pickup on that?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

The annual pickup to date right now with CTS, the career transition service—and it was the education training benefit with a dollar value that you have just cited—has been 2,200 applications, and 1,600 of those have been favourable. Of those, what we're finding is that many have indeed found employment, but we're also finding what I've just mentioned. Lots of times this is exploratory: What's available for me; what might I be interested in?

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Every institution across this great country will track the success rates of its students as they go through the program, and oftentimes there is even information to say if they've been hired and at what income level.

Do you do any tracking to make sure that, for public monies coming through Ottawa to support this program, there is that feedback loop to allow us to measure the level we're at? Can we compare it with someone who has just taken a Canada student loan who's not a veteran to make sure that we see income and successful work, not just successful completion of programs?

[Elizabeth Douglas]

With regard to CTS and the education training benefit, they're a year old, so we're starting to do that tracking now, and we're starting to see the stats showing us where veterans or family members are going.

[Dan Albas, Conservative, Central Okanagan—Similkameen—Nicola, BC]

Could you submit some of the measures so that the committee can see them? If you don't measure it, you can't manage it.

[Elizabeth Douglas]

I'd be pleased to do so.