Evidence of meeting #19 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was projects.
A recording is available from Parliament.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
To get back on greening, I was interested in how you reported on that, or how you measured the effect on greenhouse gases. Do you self report, or do you have a third party analyzing this?
That was my only question.
4:30 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Defence Construction Canada
The highest value ones for the government overall are what we're helping our client partners achieve. The the energy performance contracts, for example, are the best current ones to talk about. They are performance-based contracts. The nice thing about it is that you get the reporting, because for the private sector organizations that are delivering it, their compensation is tied to what they accomplish in terms of energy savings and efficiencies. There are very tight measurements of those performance criteria, and that's how they will be rewarded. Also, DND shares in the cost reductions that are achieved. It's an example of many types of models we use that are well governed that way.
4:30 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
We'll go to Mr. Weir for the last three-minute round. We'll come to the second round later.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
4:30 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Lands Company Ltd.
No, they are not. We are a separate employer.
4:30 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Defence Construction Canada
Yes, we're an independent employer as well.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Okay, that's good fortune on that front. Have you had any experience with Shared Services Canada?
4:30 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Defence Construction Canada
Shared Services is one of our client partners. We're doing the new Borden data centre as a P3. That was just announced by our minister last week.
We're not supported directly by Shared Services Canada, but we do benefit from a lot of the things they do with respect to firewall and virus protection for government systems overall. All our email comes through servers where they also have some oversight. But we have our own IT team, a small focus team of 10 people that does our own internal servers and things like that.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
As you might be aware, our committee is doing a study of Shared Services Canada, so if you had any thoughts or feedback on that, it would certainly be of interest. I definitely appreciate what you've already said on that front.
Coming back to the reduction in the number of employees at Defence Construction Canada, was that reduction achieved through layoffs or more attrition? Can you give us any insight on that?
4:30 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Defence Construction Canada
It was a combination of all factors. We are an independent crown corporation employer, so we have employment agreements in place with all our staff. I'll answer it three ways quickly.
Attrition, that's a quick one to address. In some cases, yes, it was a result of retirements and otherwise. In other cases, I've mentioned that we often use term positions. Where we see a need for a one- to three-year requirement, we will staff them with term positions and also draw on resources elsewhere in the country. It doesn't mean that we have to physically move the people. We operate very effectively that way.
Then you're right that there was a dramatic downturn in the DND infrastructure program. We went through a workforce adjustment, which we did in accordance with the terms of our employment agreements. A number of the positions were terminated, which we handled respectfully and fairly and with the proper legal advice. We're not mired in litigation coming out of that. We did it the right way, but we have to respond that way because, as I said, we're not an appropriated entity.
4:30 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Okay, maybe it's a yes or no question. In your construction, do you adhere to any sort of a fair wages policy for the construction employees?
4:30 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Defence Construction Canada
We contract with the private sector. The general contractors are subject to all the rules involved in the construction sector. We engage closely with the Canadian Construction Association as the representative association.
Again, we can step in if there's a situation of abuse or unacceptable practice. But for the most part, it's an arm's-length contractual relationship. We have to let the GCs do their job, but we have complaints and arbitration proceedings, so we can respond if there's a real issue where something is offside.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
The Vice-Chair Liberal Yasmin Ratansi
We're going to the first seven-minute round of the second hour.
Mr. Whalen.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Thank you, Madam Chair.
I want to thank all the witnesses for coming to meet with us today, especially Ms. Payette. My wife, children and I will actually be visiting the Old Port of Montreal tomorrow. I hope that, despite Mr. McCauley's question, you will not raise ticket prices, unless you do it the day after tomorrow.
I think this is a positive experience. It's a good thing that public sites like this one exist and that all Canadians can visit them and learn about scientific issues.
I am trying to figure out how Canada Lands is managing its environmental risk. When I looked at the 2014-15 to 2017-18 plans document, there was a risk assessment statement or the summary of your corporate planning.
When I look at the same document for this year, it seems to have been reorganized. Can you explain to me why you've changed the form of reporting in the plans document or corporate plan summary from 2014-15 to 2015-16?
4:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Lands Company Ltd.
If you'll allow me to take a look....
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
In particular, in the document last year a whole section was related to enterprise risk management and internal control. That section has been eliminated in this year's draft and it's been replaced by a single paragraph, 1.6.
When was that decision made and why? It makes it difficult, obviously, at our end of the table to see longitudinally how an organization's managing its risk if the reporting formularies change.
4:35 p.m.
President and Chief Executive Officer, Canada Lands Company Ltd.
We did conduct a thorough review of the risk management framework within the organization, including having a new chair of risk management appointed at the board level. We undertook that review with our third-party auditors, Ernst & Young. As a result of that work, we reformulated our risk management framework.
I think that's what you're seeing reflected in the change in the two documents.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Okay. Great.
Is it possible, then, for you to deposit with the committee the scorecards, the results of those, for the years up to when it changed, and then, for the year during the transition, what type of scorecard you did, as it seems to be missing?
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
In terms of managing your environmental risk, when I look at the statements from last year, there is a section that says, “The corporation is not aware of any material non-compliance...nor is it aware of any investigations”, or whatnot, on page 44. But then at page 72, it indicates that “The corporation assessed all of its activities...involving risks to determine potential environmental risks. For the properties and activities that may be significantly contaminated, the corporation has assessed the likelihood of settlement as remote.”
Can you explain to us those two statements, one where there is no non-compliance on environmental risk, and one where you're concerned that you can't settle any of the existing environmental liabilities? Can you help us understand those two statements?
4:35 p.m.
Executive Vice-President, Real Estate, Canada Lands Company Ltd.
In our real estate operations, as I mentioned before when the member for Brampton East made a statement, most of the land we're acquiring is vacant. When we're acquiring property, environmental testing is done so that there is an understanding of any environmental conditions within the soil. Where there are buildings we are acquiring, there are also building assessments to identify whether there are liabilities on that basis.
The comfort and the confidence we have is that the actual removal or cleanup of building materials or contaminants in the soil are understood, and will be managed through the redevelopment of the project, which is not unusual or a discomfort that real estate developers have.
4:35 p.m.
Liberal
Nick Whalen Liberal St. John's East, NL
Roughly how much money is set aside, or what contingencies do you have, for managing environmental risk? Or is that something that will be fully financed through the property development?