How many minutes do I have?
Evidence of meeting #33 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mail.
Evidence of meeting #33 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was mail.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
In terms of postal banking, we've heard that theme throughout. Yes, you have the infrastructure in place, but what are some of the challenges that you might face if you were to put in a postal bank? Do you have the wherewithal and the capital, and where would you get the capital and the human resources from?
4:15 p.m.
Member, Canadian Union of Postal Workers, As an Individual
We have a number of highly trained wicket clerks, such as Mary Aitken, who has already spoken before the panel. The human resources, people who are trained to perform a vast number of functions, are already in place.
As far as the direct method of financing goes, that's not my place or my purview.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Okay. That's not a problem. Finding the capital would probably be a challenge.
Are you familiar with the 2009 submission to the government, the Canada Post report on postal banking and its viability?
4:15 p.m.
Member, Canadian Union of Postal Workers, As an Individual
I'm generally familiar with it. As far as specifics go, once again, I'm not an expert. We do have the largest retail network in the country; we're in every small community, except for those small communities from which we were removed before the rural post office closure moratorium.
One of the direct challenges I can see would be that you would need to provide secure facilities in these small communities. That's been a problem in the past. In terms of logistics and examples from around the world, I think there are numerous examples of how successful this can be.
4:15 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Fair enough. A corporation could look at creating ways...by picking examples or tactics from other parts of the world.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
Doesn't three minutes go quickly, Madam Ratansi?
We'll go now to Mr. McCauley for seven minutes, please.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
The time always flies when you're having fun.
Thanks for joining us.
Mr. Pareis, I appreciate your comments. I accept that you're not going to be an expert and it's difficult to answer everything, so if you don't have an answer, please feel free to say so and we'll just move on.
About postal banking, I don't fully expect you're going to have the spreadsheet showing how you're going to make money. It looks as though you've read a lot from the CUPW report. Do you have thoughts on services provided? There's been talk about doing mortgages or doing this, this, and this; we know that's not really practical. Obviously, the idea is to make money. Have you given any thought to which services might be provided?
4:15 p.m.
Member, Canadian Union of Postal Workers, As an Individual
I think we'll start with the basic services. People have mentioned things such as cashing cheques; we have people being victimized by predatory payday loan organizations.
4:15 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
That was something we heard about from several organizations, the whole idea that billions could be made with postal banking, but hey, you can't make billions, not from that.
Most of those payday loan businesses are in clusters and are put there by banks, whereas most of the opportunity we might have for postal banking is in more rural areas. I don't think a lot of people are hit by predatory payday loan companies out in a strange rural area.
Do you see any other opportunities? Again, it's a huge process, so if you don't have it, I don't want to sit and badger you and ask you where the money is going to come from. There will be another opportunity for us to look at it further.
In your dealings with other people you work with, have you given thought to other items?
4:20 p.m.
Member, Canadian Union of Postal Workers, As an Individual
Certainly. Back in the late 1960s, you could walk into numerous Canada Post outlets and open a savings account. We did provide, in the past, basic banking services. I think there's a potential to grow from the basics. If the Government of Canada insists on no longer providing physical cheques, as they've been threatening for the longest time now—
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I think the most recent tax return said this was the last.
4:20 p.m.
Member, Canadian Union of Postal Workers, As an Individual
I know they keep saying that. I think when you have significant human rights complaints, they refuse to cut cheques. It may come to people needing to have some electronic way of storing their money securely. If you're in a remote community, the post office will be able to provide that. You're getting money coming from the federal government, and you're going to use federal government institutions to deal with that.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
We hear a lot about “last mile”. You said Purolator drops at your door to finish off, but Purolator is still the same family, so to speak. Charging them is not going to make any more money. Do you do the same service for FedEx or UPS?
4:20 p.m.
Member, Canadian Union of Postal Workers, As an Individual
FedEx, DHL, and UPS items come through our mail stream. They're being introduced into our mail stream. One such thing is DHL Global Mail. Basically, they're branded envelopes, but postage is actually put on it and it's being sent.
September 29th, 2016 / 4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I have received it like that through Canada Post, so you guys are already doing that and making money from it.
4:20 p.m.
Member, Canadian Union of Postal Workers, As an Individual
We're already doing that, but there's certainly room to expand.
What we have now is FedEx driving from Winnipeg to Dryden to deliver FedEx products. How can that possibly be sustainable financially? It's a four-hour drive.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I don't know how they do it either. It's amazing logistics. I just wanted to get an idea of the opportunities. I heard something about Purolator, and you're already Purolator.
4:20 p.m.
Member, Canadian Union of Postal Workers, As an Individual
My suggestion to you is that they're losing money on it and what they should do is sign an agreement with us.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Yes, thanks.
I understand there's a solvency issue with the pension. Canada Post is not going to end tomorrow, so we really don't have to worry about that $8 billion. One of the issues brought up, though, is that FedEx, UPS, and other companies have to follow certain rules, so it's unfair to these private industry people that Purolator doesn't have to operate the same way. If Purolator doesn't have to, why do we force private industry to do this?
I realize the current pension is in surplus, but this is so funny it's almost a Möbius strip. The current pension is in surplus only because Canada Post has put in about $2.5 billion in present value to the current pension because of this future liability. All of us need to get past this idea of the $8-billion insolvency, which is not really practical. That said, there really isn't a current surplus. A surplus exists because Canada Post has put in about $2.5 billion in present-value money for these obligations, so the current surplus doesn't really exist either. If you're not going to have one, you can't have the other.
4:20 p.m.
Member, Canadian Union of Postal Workers, As an Individual
Something we need to look at is that the previous federal government decided it would be wise to give Canada Post contribution holidays.
4:20 p.m.
Conservative