Government Operations Committee on Sept. 29th, 2016

[Mary Aitken]

Publications are second class mail. That's the order, and Admail is the last. What they generally do, according to what I've heard from other centres—because it hasn't happened here—is allow for overtime to get more done. Because of the way they have structured the routes now, they are delivering to more and more places because the volume of mail is dropping and everything is based on how much coverage there is. They do it so there is more overtime incurred.

The other community, Ignace, is a gathering place. All that's there is the Canada Post Office. Sioux Lookout, unfortunately, in a cost-saving measure, they did not make them a letter.... They should be door-to-door delivery. They didn't do that. They went with the CMBs, which is the cheaper route. Then they're also downloading, because if you go back to your towns and look, you'll see CMBs are placed next to the sidewalk, and who's cleaning the sidewalk? It sure isn't Canada Post.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

This is what we're hearing.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much. I'm afraid we have to stop there.

Next is Mr. Weir, for seven minutes, please.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Ms. Aitken, you raised an issue that we haven't heard much about so far, which is Canada Post's centralization of sorting and the effect that is having on service quality. I wonder if you could elaborate on that point.

[Mary Aitken]

I'd be glad to.

Going back to the mid-1980s, they took the machine out of south central, which is Toronto, and put it into Thunder Bay. They wound up taking it out a couple of years later because it was not viable. They didn't have enough volume. Back in the 1980s was when there was mail.

Yes, volumes are dropping, and what they did, I think three years ago, was take the machine out of Ottawa and dump it into Thunder Bay. That took all of our mail. We used to have what was called twin mailboxes, one for in town and one for out of town. The out-of-town mail went to Winnipeg to be sorted and shipped off. That was fine. We kept our local mail here. Now we don't keep any mail here. It all goes to Thunder Bay because they need the volume to put through their machine, and I bet they still don't have enough.

Kenora sends all of its mail to Winnipeg to be sorted there, because it takes too long going to Thunder Bay. The mail can take easily an extra week to 10 days, if not longer, to be sent from Dryden to Dryden, or from Dryden to Sioux Lookout. If you want to send mail up north to Port Severn, which only has a flight once a week, how much more of a delay is that?

We run a 24-hour operation here. We ship the mail to everywhere: Kejick, Whitedog, Fort Severn, Stanley Lake, Weagamow, Cat Lake, Angling Lake, Bearskin Lake, Deer Lake, Wunnummin Lake, Pikangikum, Summer Beaver, Eabamet Lake, Lansdowne, Sioux Narrows, Nestor Falls, Emo, and Rainy River. I know I am missing some, but we sort it all. We're the ones who sort the mail and deliver it all out there.

Another thing they've done is decentralize again. Fort Frances used to get two mail trucks, one from us and one from Thunder Bay. They cut out the one from Thunder Bay, and now everything comes through us down to Fort Frances. Our truck used to meet the Fort Frances truck to give Atikokan their mail. Now Atikokan's mail only goes through Thunder Bay.

You're making it worse instead of better. Let us sort our own mail. Give us the direct routes. There is so much....

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Good point, and thanks for sharing that.

Something I wanted to ask everyone on the panel about is how you would rate the importance of door-to-door delivery versus community mailboxes.

[Andrew Scribilo]

Personally, I don't get door-to-door delivery in Keewatin, and I'm fine going to the post office where there are the locked boxes. I know that the people who get door-to-door delivery love it. It's less headache for them than going downtown to pick up their stuff.

It's not that the communities are that big—there are 15,000 people—but it's a service that has come to be expected, so when some of your questions came out, the locals didn't even think they were ever going to lose their door-to-door mail. Living in a community, they expect to have it.

In Keewatin we've always had that. In Kenora, they've always had door-to-door delivery. We have 20 or 25 people hired as letter carriers in Kenora. It's that much more employment for our community, and it is good service, with parcel post and everything.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Mr. Neegan, do you have any thoughts on that?

[David Neegan]

I just want to add, in terms of the sorting, that we as a business have noticed that everything goes to Thunder Bay, and that has slowed down the delivery and receiving of mail within the region. For instance, I have an office in Red Lake where people send us stuff. It's a little more expensive to send things by air, but we have to use that option now because it will just take a little too long if we just throw it in the mail.

In terms of door-to-door delivery, I reside in Sioux Lookout, and we have a rural box. I'd like it delivered to my door. That's the only comment I really have.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

Fair enough. Sure.

[Mary Aitken]

We were slated to go to the first CMBs this year, but because of the election, that plan was put on hold temporarily. As my boss loves to say, “It's gonna come.”

What gets me is the way they've written it, trying to say there are fewer people who get door-to-door delivery than people who don't. You're throwing in all of those places. Fort Severn, Big Trout, Sandy Lake—none of those places have door-to-door delivery. We don't expect that any of those places ever will, but don't throw them in the mix and try to say that there are fewer people getting door-to-door delivery, because there are a whole lot of urban places that do get door-to-door delivery. We don't get door-to-door delivery everywhere here in Dryden, unfortunately. Lakeside Drive, Skillin Crescent, and Milanese Place all have CMBs. They should be on door-to-door delivery. Why aren't they on door-to-door delivery? It's because that might create another letter carrier job.

[Erin Weir, NDP, Regina—Lewvan, SK]

In terms of those letter carrier jobs, the perspective we heard from the CFIB at a previous panel was that postal workers were paid too much. I think you've actually made the point that wages have been pretty flat at Canada Post compared to those in the private sector. I wonder if you might elaborate a bit, based on your career with the corporation.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Unfortunately, you have only a very brief amount of time.

[Mary Aitken]

As I put in my brief, when I started working at the post office, I was working night shift. I got a night shift difference of a dollar an hour. That was the difference between what I was making and what the guys at the mill were making. I didn't have any benefits. Now they're making 50 to 60 bucks an hour, depending; I'm making $26 an hour. That's quite clear, and I work eight hours a day. The majority of the letter carriers may not be—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

We'll go to Ms. Ratansi for seven minutes, please.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you all for being here.

As you know, this is our fifth or sixth meeting, and we've heard a lot of complaints about Canada Post—the corporation, the management, its non-consultative nature, and its ability to create crisis without crisis occurring—so we understand. We've heard it over and over again, and we've heard about seniors and people with disabilities needing their door-to-door delivery.

We need to find a road forward. That's why we are asking to hear from you as communities as to what the road forward is.

Mr. Neegan, you say if Canada Post creates this crisis, then you'll look for alternative sources. That's an interesting one, because the crisis is created by the corporation, maybe under a different mandate. Now it's a different mandate. This thing has stopped, and they seem to have created a financial crisis.

As a business, would you create a crisis by saying you're going into insolvency?

[David Neegan]

In terms of Canada Post, I'm aware of its history in terms of how the business model has changed over the last 20 years, especially with my business directly. I'm in commercial printing, and the market share really has shrunk. We're in the same boat as Canada Post.

In terms of our business relationship with Canada Post, we find that the quality of service is exceptional. Nothing negative has been brought to my attention in terms of service delivery, and we haven't heard anything negative from our clientele or our workers.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Going forward, you would say Canada Post is an essential service for your business—

[David Neegan]

I would prefer, in terms of Canada Post, that the union and the corporation resolve their issues. I don't know what the Government of Canada can do in terms of either legislation or something else that it doesn't put me in a position where I have to make that choice.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

That's fair enough.

Ms. Aitken, do you feel that under the current management, the workers can create a plausible environment in which to work with management so that we can come to a solution? Does it need to be facilitated?

If pensions, for example, were taken out of the equation.... The pension liability is really not a liability. What Canada Post has said is that if it went into insolvency.... Now, that is really bad thinking. If you're an ongoing concern, you can't think of insolvency, so would a change in mindset probably...? What do you think?

[Mary Aitken]

As to our pension plan and the...?

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Insolvency, when you go into—

[Mary Aitken]

There's the “going concern” and then there's—

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Insolvency.

[Mary Aitken]

Is Canada Post going to close their doors tomorrow?