Government Operations Committee on Oct. 19th, 2016

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

No, I meant for delivery of mail. The last mile is very interesting because the parcels are delivered.... I was asking some of the previous panellists as to what happens and how they deliver their mail and they said there is the bag and that bag is carried over, and in remote communities that do not have post offices that's what happens. Canada Post sends it via airplane. So if that were to be parcelled out to somebody else—

[Mark Heyck]

You'd probably want to do a fairly careful cost-benefit analysis of what costs actually get passed on to the last consumer. As Ms. Brown said, the model is different in different communities, depending on how many airlines might fly there. It could be a monopoly situation, so I think some careful analysis would need to happen there before passing that off.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Ms. Brown, what sorts of businesses are in this area in your communities?

[Sara Brown]

It varies greatly. For the most part we have a lot of businesses that are supporting oil and gas or non-renewable development. We also have a lot of home-based businesses around crafts, those sorts of things. That's the majority at this point.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

My colleague, Nick, was talking about integration of services. In places where there is a mailman, he could take a picture of a pothole and tell the.... But in your case, there is no mailman, but there is another concept of integration that you could probably work on so businesses probably are partnering with Canada Post in some creative way to generate revenue. We talk about the UPS store that can give more retail business to Canada Post.

Do you have any such ideas that might help?

[Mark Heyck]

I do think it's important—and I sat in on the tail end of the last panel—to talk about collaboration and that overarching principle of collaborative thinking, and I do think there is merit in it. In certain communities and regional centres in the Northwest Territories we have local chambers of commerce. It would be interesting to have Canada Post speak more closely with those types of organizations to see what type of collaboration could happen.

In a place like Yellowknife, which is fairly unique in the territorial context, we have a broad range of businesses and business interests, so it's a little more dispersed, but certainly in some smaller communities there would be a lot of merit.

Canada Post, as a crown corporation, is often seen as a stand-alone government agency where, in the times in which we live, there could be more collaborative efforts to sit down with local business leaders to ask how we can all work together to not only help Canada Post but to benefit the local business community as well.

[Yasmin Ratansi, Liberal, Don Valley East, ON]

Thank you.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

We'll now go to our final two intervenors for five minutes each.

Mr. McCauley, you're up.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Good morning. Thanks for joining us. I've very much enjoyed what you're having to say. It's very pragmatic and practical. I appreciate that.

Mayor, thanks for having us here. I'm looking forward to seeing a bit of the city on the way back to the airport today. You've made it very clear and we've heard very much throughout the last couple of weeks that there are—I don't want to say two different worlds—the large urban reality of Canada Post, which means one thing, and then out here in rural areas it means something completely different and something more important. I'm glad you talked about that a bit.

The task force did very extensive polling that showed that two-thirds of Canadians very much believe that we should subsidize the rural areas to keep Canada Post a lot more active. One of their suggestions was that there are 500 to 700 current Canada Post outlets right inside big cities that could be converted to retail outlets and the money saved used to subsidize where it's a lot more important, which is rural areas like this.

In Edmonton there are more than 20 Canada Post outlets within a 10-minute drive of my house, which I imagine you could only dream of.

Is it something that you would support, that we use—as the task force is suggesting—the resources that may not be needed in the big cities to keep it a viable option up here, where it is a community hub and a lot more important to the community, as you said?

[Mark Heyck]

It sounds like the Starbucks model, one on the corner of every block.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Well, it's fantastic.

[Mark Heyck]

I think it's important for any government agency, crown corporation, or otherwise to conduct its affairs in an efficient and cost-effective manner. I don't want to speak to issues in southern Canada, but you asked about the need for subsidization for remote areas. A rationalisation of the operation is fair game, in my view, if those services can be provided in a more rational manner.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

We've heard across the entire country “community hub, community hub”. If you go into the big city and you mention Canada Post, you'll find out it's at the Shoppers Drug Mart and there are eight of them on the way to work. It's a different world up here and in quite a few other spots. It's an important community hub.

Ms. Brown, you mentioned one of your odd businesses was a tanning salon with something else. We heard yesterday a few other people wanting Canada Post to expand revenue. Canada Post's revenues are actually looking to go up about 16% over the next few years just because of parcel growth. Revenues are expanding. We heard yesterday and some other times that Canada Post should get into a lot of other businesses: selling books, licensing, insurance, travel. How do you think your local businesses would feel if they had to now compete against a government-subsidized competitor getting into their bailiwick?

[Sara Brown]

I would think that they would have an issue with that. It's just because of low volumes, no matter what, that we end up with these combined businesses. You can't make a living just as a travel agent, so you put in a tanning bed. I think it would be better, if you had to pick between the two, to be talking about giving them those opportunities than for Canada Post to be taking over those opportunities.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That is pretty much everything I have. Is there anything else you think Canada Post could be doing? We heard about broadband. I think my preference would be, if there were a Rogers or someone already providing service, to throw some money at them to help expand it rather than put it in Canada Post and have people travel to use a desktop at a Canada Post office. Who is providing Internet up here right now?

[Sara Brown]

We have Northwestel, and we have another private provider as well. It's still using Northwestel's—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Maybe provide some infrastructure help for them rather than just running a line to a Canada Post office.

[Sara Brown]

It's not a little infrastructure help, it's—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I mean provide a lot of infrastructure help rather than running a fibre line to a Canada Post office and have people walk in there.

[Sara Brown]

We have 10 of our 33 communities that currently only have satellite service.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I used to live in a rather remote area, so I understand.

Thank you very much.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Our final intervenor will be Ms. Shanahan for five minutes, please.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

Thank you, Chair.

I'm thinking about that last mile delivery. Bring back the dog sled; I think that would be terrific. Think of the ecotourism, and so on.

Certainly you have your challenges here. It's a completely different reality, and it goes to the essence, the role of Canada Post, as we heard from our postal historian in the first panel, and from you, Your Worship. This is what Canada Post was built for; to be that glue, that lifeline, between the south and the north, and it's only going to get greater as we go forward because the economic opportunities are there. The north is only going to become more developed and more important to our national identity and economy.

That being said, the Canadian government has a role in delivering services from coast to coast to coast; and that's a challenge. Citizens very often are not even aware of the services that the Canadian government can offer them.

Do you see a role for Canada Post to play in delivering services, a Service Canada type of addition to the community hub, especially in these remote communities?

I'll start with Sara.

[Sara Brown]

Yes, absolutely.

I think there's a great opportunity there. Something as simple as getting a passport; certainly some of the steps could be looked after at the local hub and that would be very beneficial. Right now, there's no way to even get a picture done. There's no photographer; lots of the communities can't even issue drivers' licences. There are definitely some opportunities there.

[Brenda Shanahan, Liberal, Châteauguay—Lacolle, QC]

What would it take, do you think? Do you need to have a full-out infrastructure to deliver that or are we talking about a counter, maybe, in the travel agency or whatever?