Evidence of meeting #53 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 42nd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was post.
A video is available from Parliament.
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
3:50 p.m.
President, Canadian Consumer Finance Association
I can't speak to it directly because—
3:50 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
I'm just asking the question. I'm just trying to get my sense about it.
In the 600 indigenous communities, Mr. Martin, there are only 56 credit unions or people that serve them. Do you have any idea whether the post office structure might help the credit unions expand their service?
3:50 p.m.
Senior Policy Advisor, Canadian Credit Union Association
As I indicated in some earlier comments, there would be an openness for the system to have a dialogue with Canada Post to fill some of those gaps. We are aware of them. We know that they're up in the north. We know that in some indigenous communities, they face challenges. We are trying to serve some of those communities, but it is challenging, especially as they have to be financially viable in some way. Once again, all I can say is we'd be open to a dialogue.
One thing is that we may not want to focus solely on Canada Post as the modality or mechanism to deliver this. There might be two different things being mixed in this discussion. On the one hand you have Canada Post, which is facing huge challenges in its core businesses. It's looking for ways to either streamline its activities or to expand its product offerings. The postal—
3:55 p.m.
Liberal
Yasmin Ratansi Liberal Don Valley East, ON
Could I cut you off for one second, please?
I just want to ask all of you whether you have ever looked at the Australian model of the post office supplying banking. If you haven't, please send us your thoughts on it, because it has $6 billion in assets and $36 million in profit. Its land mass and population are the same as ours.
If you could give us your thoughts on it, that would be really appreciated. Thank you.
3:55 p.m.
Senior Policy Advisor, Canadian Credit Union Association
Sure, but I would just like to finish up my comment, if I could.
3:55 p.m.
Senior Policy Advisor, Canadian Credit Union Association
Within this discussion around the future of Canada Post, the issue of servicing rural and remote areas keeps emerging as part of the dialogue. I'll admit that we as credit unions, as co-operatives, are interested in that issue.
At the same time, I don't see using a Canada Post model to serve those communities as a means to deal with its structural issues. The markets it would be serving need services, but those are certainly not going to address the core problems at Canada Post. I think we can't mix those things up. That's why we're making the point that if you want to have a dialogue about this, these issues in rural and remote regions, then we're open to that discussion, but we don't necessarily have to have the Canada Post bank on the table. There could be other ways of doing it.
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
3:55 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Well, you were having so much fun the first time, we figured you'd want to—
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Yes, I was. I was thinking the Conservatives got to have some more questions in there or something.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Oh, well, that's very much appreciated.
Mr. Martin, is there any possibility of collaboration between credit unions and Canada Post in offering financial services? I know you've said it's not all about branch banking, but credit unions are keen to keep physical branches open. I wonder if there are any postal outlets that might be attractive to you in that regard.
3:55 p.m.
Senior Policy Advisor, Canadian Credit Union Association
Yes, and I've said that a few times.
What we are really concerned about is that we don't believe we should establish a stand-alone full-service bank at Canada Post. If you want to have a dialogue about serving rural and remote regions, we're totally open to that. You also do not have to do it through a Canada Post modality. There may be other ways of doing it.
I know that maybe about five or six years ago, or maybe a little longer—I'm showing my age, I guess—we had a discussion about moving into Nunavut. We had a long dialogue with Arctic Co-operatives Limited and the government up there. It didn't result in anything. I think other options were tried up there.
We'll have those discussions. We're open to that.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
So it's not so much that you're opposed to any version of postal banking; it's more that you're skeptical of Canada Post itself trying to become a full-service bank.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Okay. Fair enough.
I have a similar question for you, Mr. Hannah. I know we've talked a little bit about this, and you have really emphasized the point that you want to move to where the puck's going to be, which perhaps involves more digital options. Is there a willingness among your members to try to collaborate with Canada Post in delivering financial services?
3:55 p.m.
Vice-President, Finance, Risk and Prudential Policy, Canadian Bankers Association
Well, as I said, absent an actual proposal on the table, it's hard to say, but even in the case of a proposal, those kinds of relationships are always evaluated on a case-by-case basis and on a commercial basis. It would really depend on the circumstances at the time and the actual proposal on the table.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
I suppose I'd put the same question to you, Mr. Irwin. Canada Post, obviously, has some good facilities. Through the federal government it might have some advantages in terms of collections. Is there any willingness on the part of your members to go into some kind of partnership with Canada Post to provide short-term loans?
3:55 p.m.
President, Canadian Consumer Finance Association
I can't say it's anything our membership has ever discussed, but certainly, as is my colleague Mr. Martin, we're always open to conversations and discussions with any and all governments.
3:55 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
Okay, fair enough.
Mr. Hannah, we were having a discussion earlier about the competitiveness of the Canadian banking sector, and of course you've suggested it's quite competitive. I've been a little more skeptical of that. Just to make sure I understand your argument correctly, is it that it's so competitive that Canada Post would not be able to get into it and compete effectively, or is it more the notion that in response to Canada Post entering the market, your members would lower their fees and respond in an effective way to Canada Post's entry?
4 p.m.
Vice-President, Finance, Risk and Prudential Policy, Canadian Bankers Association
My view is that the market is already highly competitive. Canadians are already well served and have a very high regard for their financial institutions and their relationship. In an environment like that, given how much it would cost Canada Post to try to get into this market in a meaningful way, given what you need to do in order to satisfy customers' demands for omni-channel access, I have a great deal of difficulty believing they would be able to penetrate that market successfully and profitably.
4 p.m.
NDP
Erin Weir NDP Regina—Lewvan, SK
So your sense is that bank fees in Canada are essentially as low as they reasonably could be.