Government Operations Committee on May 4th, 2017

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Ms. Maheu, generally speaking, within the department, if as one of the four pillars of estimates reform we possibly move to project-based appropriations, as Minister Brison has suggested, how would that affect how we receive this information? It seems to me that you would have had to come back to us in September with a plan and specific spending in respect of the murdered and missing indigenous women. Is that not correct?

[Chantal Maheu]

I'm not too sure that I can comment on future changes to how the estimates are going to be reformed. In the current system, we would come through the supplementary estimates to seek the funding as decisions are made.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Sure, but you've already had a plan with respect to this project. It's ongoing. We already spent about $3.5 million last year. I'm concerned about the fact that a detailed plan on this additional spending wouldn't simply have come to us in the main estimates. It's not something that budget 2017-18 affected. It was a plan that pre-existed. I would have expected, even under our existing process, to have seen these requests and a plan included in the main estimates rather than in the supplementary (A)s.

[Kami Ramcharan]

If I may, Mr. Chair, I can respond to that question.

For the murdered and missing indigenous women and girls, it was an initiative that is set up as a commission of inquiry, which is very independent. It's something different that we in PCO haven't supported before.

In terms of developing a plan, we didn't do it internally ourselves, because it really is up to the commission to identify their work plan, to meet their mandate for the terms of reference that were indicated within the terms of reference for the commission. As of September, when it was first formally announced, we have been working directly with the commissioners to understand what is their work plan, what is the way they were going to spend their resources, what's their staffing plan, how they're going to set up, and how they're going to structure their organization, which includes setting up offices right across Canada and hiring people.

In terms of working with them—

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Thank you very much. I look forward to discussing this further at estimates (A).

With respect to some of the other changes, on engagement with youth, there must have been some form of government spending on engagement with youth, possibly under labour and human resources development under the previous administration. Have there been any transfers of program funding across other departments to PCO in order to assist the Prime Minister in his dual role as Minister for Youth? Or are those funds being simply reallocated to other programs in other departments?

[Chantal Maheu]

The activities in other departments that were targeted to youth continue. Actually, there are youth initiatives in several departments. What PCO is doing in terms of supporting the Prime Minister is a kind of novel thing for PCO. The Prime Minister, as the minister of youth requires some support. He has the youth council and he has activities related to that. That's specifically what the funding is allocated for.

You may recall that we received some of that funding in 2016-17 through supplementary estimates, and now we're seeking to stabilize that in the main estimates for this year.

[Nick Whalen, Liberal, St. John's East, NL]

Okay. Just so I can understand the flow of funds, because it came in supplementary estimates last year, when we see this $1.2-million increase for engagement with youth in the main estimates, that's the full bucket.

[The Vice-Chair, NDP, Erin Weir]

Unfortunately, we won't have time for an answer to that question, although perhaps it's a point we can return to.

We'll continue our round of seven minutes with Mr. McCauley.

While he's beginning, I'm going to turn the chair over to Madam Ratansi so that I may ask the NDP's questions subsequently.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'm glad you're with us today. Welcome back to some of you.

If you have a very quick answer, you can answer Mr. Whalen's question.

[Chantal Maheu]

Sure. In 2016-17, we got $1.5 million in supplementary estimates (B), and in 2017-18 it's $1.2 million.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

All right.

I'll stick with you on the million dollars for the Senate appointment process. It seems that every time we have the Privy Council with us, we come back to this, because we never seem to get clear answers. It's a million dollars. How much was spent last year and how much are you spending this year? I'd like to have the breakdown, please, of what that million dollars is going towards.

[Chantal Maheu]

Last year, through supplementary estimates (A), we sought $1.4 million. As Kami mentioned, our accounts are not closed yet, so I cannot report exactly how much was spent of that $1.4 million.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Is it close to it?

[Chantal Maheu]

I don't know....

[Kami Ramcharan]

Unfortunately, I can't give it to you, but we would have spent a significant amount, probably to the tune of 85% of that money, but again, that's something that—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That's a close enough answer.

There is a million dollars again for this year.... It's funny that it says “new”, but it's not new. What exactly is this million dollars going to, please?

[Chantal Maheu]

Thank you for your question.

The funding is to support the advisory—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I realize that but, please, what is it going to? Is it going to staffing? Is it going to travel? Is it going to cocktail parties? What is it going to? I'm sorry that I'm sounding a bit cynical, but at previous committees we've heard answers like, “We're hiring staff to print resumés”, and then we'd hear at the next committee meeting, “No, they're doing this, this, and this”. I'd like to find out what the breakdown is. How much is going to staff? How much is going to the activities of the advisory committee? If you look at the website, you see that we are not hiring anyone. The resumé process is closed till next winter. The support staff aren't taking resumés. I'm just curious about where this million dollars is going.

[Kami Ramcharan]

Maybe I can help and sort of give you the grosso modo. We have added four new people to PCO to support the resources. That would be roughly a cost of $450,000 to $500,000 in terms of the overall costs. The other amounts of money are related to the advisory committee that they support. There are secretariat services, where we would pay for travel, the accommodation associated with it, and the meals and incidentals for the members to come together.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

So it's $400,000 for staff and $600,000 for the advisory committee. We are not actually hiring or appointing any new senators now. The system is closed.

[Kami Ramcharan]

We do have vacancies right now that we are in the midst of trying to fill.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay.

I'm just curious, though. We are not taking any applications. We're doing no work. We are not doing anything till the winter of 2017, six or seven months from now. Is it really a million dollars—the same as last year, basically—when we are not filling any extra roles?

[Chantal Maheu]

As Kami mentioned, there are vacancies now. There are currently six vacancies. Between now and the end of the fiscal year, we are forecasting four additional vacancies due to normal retirement, so the advisory board will have to provide recommendations to the Prime Minister for suitable candidates for these vacancies. They will convene and assess the existing stock of resumés and—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay. If we have six to fill and we are expecting four more, who would have made the decision on your website to cut off any more applications?

[Chantal Maheu]

Well, my understanding is that—