Government Operations Committee on June 8th, 2017

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

You can argue this, and I understand your argument, but my belief is actually that when you get the sequencing right, it does shift.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

But you haven't. What is the plan to get it right?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

We haven't yet, but when we get the sequencing right, that instills within the system—I'm saying with Finance, Treasury Board, and across government departments and agencies—the expectation that budget items get into the main estimates.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Are you going to present a plan on how you're going to do that?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

There's a specific example that's illustrative.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Minister Brison, please, we're running out of time. Could you just answer the question? Are you going to present a plan to us on how you're going to get this accomplished?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

We already have presented, and we are in fact already providing crosswalks on this.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Well, it's not working, because we're going backwards according to the PBO.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

The Marine Atlantic example is actually one that is illustrative of our approach, and Brian can speak to that, just on the specifics.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I'd prefer we not talk about a single, individual department.

[Brian Pagan]

In respect to the question about what we will gain from alignment, Mr. McCauley, I can cite a specific example here in the supplementary (A)s: Marine Atlantic, on page 2-28. This organization has faced—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay, but Brian, I'm going to interrupt because you say you have one accomplishment. The PBO is very clear; you're—

[Brian Pagan]

No, this isn't an accomplishment. This is a poster child of why our current system is wrong.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay. Are you going to present a written plan to us for bringing that huge gap from seven to 18 months down to the two months that you want in order to justify changing the Standing Orders?

[Brian Pagan]

The president tabled a discussion paper last year, and it's a four-point plan. We have to get the timing right.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I've seen the four-point plan. It needs more than a graph, though, showing this, this, and this, to move from 18 months down to six or seven. What we've seen from the PBO is we're going backwards.

[Brian Pagan]

But we haven't implemented any part of the four-part plan, so the PBO—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That's what I'm saying. Why do we want to push ahead? I want to confirm that we're not going to change the Standing Orders just to justify something that's....

[Brian Pagan]

Marine Atlantic is an example of why we want to push ahead, Mr. McCauley, so I'll just cite very quickly—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

No, I'm going to interrupt, Mr. Pagan. I don't see the point. Changing the date of the Standing Orders is not going to allow you to move.

[Brian Pagan]

Well, you're looking for an example of what we can gain, but you're not letting me present an example.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

If it's taking six to seven to 18 months to get the money out the door, that's not going to get it into the supplementary (A)s. You're going backwards in the supplementary (A)s.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

You are entitled to that opinion. I have a very different opinion, and that is—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

So you're saying the PBO is wrong?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I'm saying I don't agree with the PBO on this.