Government Operations Committee on June 8th, 2017

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Sorry, not Renée—

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

She helps ensure that I have good answers.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

It's not Renée, but the other lady.

[Renée LaFontaine, Chief Financial Officer and Assistant Secretary, Corporate Services Sector, Treasury Board Secretariat]

Marcia.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Sorry Marcia.

You mentioned that 90% of the contracts have been signed now. How many people does that cover approximately?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

It's fairly commensurate with the public service, so it would be approximately—

[Brian Pagan]

The number I have in my head is 185,000.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

Okay, it's in the 185,000 ballpark. If Brian says so, it must be true.

[Brian Pagan]

It's 87%, and I believe the—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

With regard to the $565 million in the estimates, how many people does that cover, then? I'm sure you've read the PBO report on the estimates. They're stating that the numbers that they had for salary adjustments were applied across the public service. It could be as high as $2.3 billion, and you have $565 million. What's the difference, please?

[Brian Pagan]

The reference here is to numbers that were included in supplementary estimates (C), the $535 million. As I think everyone realizes, those funds were not required. They were included in supplementary estimates (C) on the possibility that agreements would be ratified and payments made. Those agreements were not ratified before the end of the fiscal year, and payments were not made.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Of the $625 million—

[Brian Pagan]

The difference between the $535 million and the $625 million is that since the supplementary estimates (C), we've actually signed additional agreements, and therefore we're anticipating higher costs and payouts. That number reflects the best information at the time of supplementary (A)s, which was about 87% of the....

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Will that be enough to cover it? I mention the PBO's comments. It could be $3.2 billion, so that's quite a gap.

[Brian Pagan]

Right. It covers the amount forecast for deals signed up to that point in time. It is hoped there will be additional progress in collective bargaining, and we will see subsequent amounts in subsequent supplementary estimates.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

How much to you expect those to be, to get that last 13% signed up?

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I think the PBO was speaking of—was it $2.7 billion?

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

$2.3 billion.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

That goes to 2018-19.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Okay, so it was $1.2 billion for this year.

[Scott Brison, Liberal, Kings—Hants, NS]

I think he was saying 2018-19, so I think he was looking further ahead in terms of future fiscal—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

But he says $1.2 for this fiscal year.

[Brian Pagan]

It's his forecast. Because negotiations—

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

But your forecast is $625 million for 87%.

[Brian Pagan]

This is to cover the deals already signed, and it's the retroactive portion of that. Because negotiations are ongoing with additional bargaining agents, it is really quite difficult to tell the total cost of salaries, both this year and into the future.

His estimates and methodology were very sound. We take no issue with the numbers advanced by the Parliamentary Budget Officer.