Evidence of meeting #1 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was briefing.
A recording is available from Parliament.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
We have a couple of Kellys in this group, so I'll have to go by surnames here.
Mr. McCauley.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
We have such a short time for this, I think that if someone wants a briefing, they can approach the department separately for a private briefing. Treasury Board has done that many times outside of the committee.
No offence, but if the government had started committees and recalled Parliament immediately, we would have had time for this. But if we take Tuesday for the subcommittee, we're down to three days for the supplementary estimates.
I'm told we're back to the old system of estimates, which means the main estimates have to be tabled within the next week and deemed reported at the end of March. We have the supplementary estimates (B) and the mains to go through, with potentially just three or four dates to have ministers before us. To take any further time away from the supplementary estimates (B) and the mains, which, frankly, are the reason this committee exists, is folly, in my view. I appreciate what you are saying, but we have such short timelines. We need to set our dates so that we will actually start doing our job and start looking at the estimates.
Again, the main estimates have to be tabled very shortly as well.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Perhaps we can defer everything else to the subcommittee, but at least confirm now that we will look at, perhaps, the 27th, and March 10 and March 12, for the supplementary estimates (B).
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
If I may, with respect to Patrick's suggestion about a briefing, individual briefings can be arranged. Any members who wish to have a departmental briefing can certainly make arrangements through the clerk and the analyst, and have a fulsome discussion. I would suggest, because of the short timelines in this particular case, maybe that is the best route to go.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Treasury Board has offered that every time they have dropped the mains.
9:55 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
I would suggest that, rather than try to organize a full committee briefing, we leave it to the individual members to request one individually. Those services are certainly available. That would free up a little more time.
Unfortunately, because of the way the break weeks fall, we are dealing with a very truncated calendar.
I'm going back to Francis. You had suggested that for next Tuesday's meeting we invite the president of the Treasury Board. Am I correct?
10 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
For a departmental briefing by Treasury Board...but I don't know if the president of the Treasury Board is available. Of course, they have to appear within our next four or five meetings. I just don't know who is available on that particular day.
I don't know if we are going to have two hours of committee business next Tuesday, so in the first hour we could discuss committee business, and have that briefing in the second hour. If it's just going to be the subcommittee meeting anyway, we could invite other members who want to join us.
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
The suggestion now—let me try to encapsulate this—is that next Tuesday, the first hour, from 8:45 to 9:45, would be the subcommittee on agenda and procedure, and from 9:45 to 10:45 we would invite TBS departmental officials to come and provide a briefing to this committee. Are we in agreement on that?
10 a.m.
Some hon. members
Agreed.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Just to clarify one more thing, in the second hour we would invite any members who want to receive a briefing, along with the subcommittee. Is that correct?
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Yes, it's been proposed that there be a full committee meeting that second hour.
That being said, it's up to the committee members themselves whether they want to participate in that briefing. It wouldn't be optional; it would be a full meeting, as called by the chair.
Paul made a good point. As members would know, in camera discussions can be called at any time. However, Treasury Board officials would probably appreciate knowing now whether the discussions were going to be in camera or in public. I would ask for some advice from this committee with regard to the briefing itself with Treasury Board officials. Would you prefer that to be in camera or in public?
10 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
I say it's really up to new members to decide. In the past we've done it in camera, so we could ask any kind of questions, so we wouldn't look unprofessional perhaps. I'll leave it up to the committee to decide.
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Well, that's why I mentioned that the Treasury Board officials would like to know now whether it would be in public or in camera. I would like to have a decision on that question before we adjourn.
Do you want to make a suggestion, Francis? We'll see if that is—
10 a.m.
Liberal
Francis Drouin Liberal Glengarry—Prescott—Russell, ON
From my previous experience, I would say that in camera is better. There are going to be plenty of opportunities to find some embarrassing things, I'm sure. This is not one of them. It's just a briefing.
10 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
Yes, if it's purely a briefing on process, then that's a good idea.
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Mr. Green, I saw your hand up. I'm not sure if you wanted to add to that.
10 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
I'm referring back to my deferred motion—I probably can't speak back to it—but I'm always of the mind that we should keep as many meetings as we can open and in public. If we have questions that we need to ask, we ask them. If there are questions that we don't know that we don't know, then we should probably take those offline and have private briefings—as I'm about to do in about 45 minutes.
10 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Just so you know and just so we're clear, what we're asking Treasury Board officials to do is to come in to provide a basically holistic briefing on the Treasury Board itself and on the estimates.
10 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Mr. Chair, so that I'm clear, these proceedings are recorded and then open to the public at such time. Is that correct?
10 a.m.
The Clerk
Public committee meetings are broadcast live. They're being broadcast right now.
10:05 a.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Then they're archived. People could go to that. My intention would be to go to my constituency and say, “This is how it works”, and allow them to learn along with me. That's my intention. The more open, recorded, public-facing opportunities to do that.... I'd like to do that.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Mr. Green is making a suggestion that when the Treasury Board officials come to discuss the main and supplementary estimates that it be done in public. I'm looking for whether or not there is concurrence by members.
10:05 a.m.
Conservative
Kelly McCauley Conservative Edmonton West, AB
I would agree with Mr. Drouin. This briefing is going to be a learning briefing. I agree with him. Estimates are a difficult process to understand. I would hate to have anyone not learn because they're afraid of asking a dumb question.