Evidence of meeting #12 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was masks.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Noon
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
With that, Mr. MacKinnon, even though I gave you some additional time for my quick intervention, we are completely out of time now.
Mr. Barsalou-Duval.
Noon
Bloc
Xavier Barsalou-Duval Bloc Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
I want to come back to the issue of the strategic stockpile.
I have a hard time understanding how the inventory is monitored. I was told that you track needs with the provinces. However, the Government of Quebec ran out of resources rather quickly at the beginning of the crisis. It started looking for masks even before the general public was aware of the situation. Meanwhile, you threw out expired masks.
Why was there no coordination between the two jurisdictions to help the Government of Quebec? I know that the masks were expired, but do you not know ahead of time when the expiry date of the masks is in six months or a year? Do you just sit back and then simply throw the masks out when they expire. I do not understand how this is managed.
Noon
Vice-President, Health Security Infrastructure Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada
Perhaps I'll start and then go over to my colleague to talk about what has happened with Quebec, in particular.
Just to be clear, those masks that expired were purchased in 2009. They expired five years afterwards, in 2014, and they were destroyed in 2019, well before we had any inkling that this would be coming upon us. What we have done is to retain some other expired stock much more recently.
Health Canada, in an emergency, can often actually give you the authority to use expired materials. They still have to be subjected to a verification to make sure they do not pose any risk to the end-user. For anything that we did have, as well, we talked to our provinces and territories that also had expired stock. Where we were able to get the authority from Health Canada to use expired product, subject to a visual inspection, we did.
Noon
Conservative
Noon
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Thank you very much.
I still can't understand how, in this system, you sit on these products for 10 years and you stated that you did so this before you knew this was going to happen. That's the whole essence of a national emergency stockpile.
Do you care to comment on what lessons at least you have learned?
My passion comes from the fact that we've already been told that we're in a hyper-competitive environment and that we're going to have second and third waves of this in the future. I think the public deserves to know what your department is doing in the face of the mismanagement of the last 10 years of this national emergency stockpile.
12:05 p.m.
Vice-President, Health Security Infrastructure Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada
To begin with, I would disagree with the closing part of your argument. I actually believe that NESS was managed according to its mandate and its funding.
Having said that, on a go-forward basis, there are many lessons that we have been learning that we have begun to implement. I suspect that the management not just of the national emergency strategic stockpile but also of the federal-provincial-territorial discussions, arrangements and understanding of what is out there broadly will change dramatically.
We are working closely through logistic advisory committees and a number of deputy and ministerial forums to identify needs, burn rates, not just for the immediate...but also for ongoing business as economies open and, potentially, preparation for a second wave. That is a completely different order of business than we've had in the past and we are laying some very good groundwork in getting the information that we need, as well the provinces' relationships.
12:05 p.m.
NDP
Matthew Green NDP Hamilton Centre, ON
Is there an avenue I can find out exactly the quantity of other products that have been disposed of? I'm very concerned that the only reason we found out about this was a waste-bin contract that went south in Regina.
12:05 p.m.
Vice-President, Health Security Infrastructure Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada
Everything that we have done has—
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Ms. Thornton, unfortunately, we're out of time. I know you have an answer. I wonder if you could provide that answer in writing to our clerk as quickly as possible.
12:05 p.m.
Vice-President, Health Security Infrastructure Branch, Public Health Agency of Canada
Thank you, Mr. Chair.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you.
We'll now go to the second round. Again, it'll be five-minute interventions starting with Ms. Block.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.
I would just start off the top by responding to that last comment by saying that to leave a stockpile of supplies five years past its expiry date in a warehouse, to me, is the very definition of mismanagement.
I'm going to turn some of my comments over to PSPC.
We have been advised that PSPC has established agreements with Canadian companies, which are obviously stepping up to support Canada's efforts. We were given a list. It's not a limited list: there were 12 companies on that list.
Can you tell me how many of the Canadian companies that we've contracted with have been given 10-year contracts similar to Medicom's?
12:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chair, Medicom, I think, is the only 10-year contract that I'm aware of.
Arianne may wish to chime in on this one, but that was basically necessitated by the fact that to attract a manufacturing facility, you need to promise them a certain volume of business. That was the vehicle we chose to essentially make sure that the investment was warranted on their part, namely, by giving them a long-term contract. A 10-year contract was the agreement that was reached.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Does a company that is awarded a sole-source contract still provide the government with a proposal?
12:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chair, essentially, to start the negotiations you would have had an LOI, and then you would have had a negotiation where they would essentially respond to a statement of work, and then a negotiation from there. You would have seen a document like a proposal go through, and you would have evaluated it to make made sure that it met the needs of Canada.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Would those documents include other companies the company is getting the contract with and planning on working with?
12:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Not necessarily, Mr. Chair. What you would see, though, is a discussion of the supply chain itself because what you're looking for is domestic production. So, as part of the discussion, you would have discussions about where they intend to get their supplies. However, it's up to the prime contractors where they get their supplies. We just want to make sure they have plans in place when we negotiate.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
So, when this contract was awarded to Medicom, was there any indication that Medicom would be working with SNC-Lavalin?
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Before you answer, Mr. Matthews, I'll remind you once again to keep the microphone close to your mouth, please.
12:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I apologize, Mr. Chair. I'm having a hard time with that today. Hopefully that's better.
No, our discussion is basically with the prime contractor, and the agreement is with the prime contractor. The subcontractors are the prime contractor's business.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Thank you for that. I appreciate it.
With regard to the contracts for all personal protective equipment, how many contracts has PSPC signed to date?
12:05 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Mr. Chair, we're in the range of over 200 contracts. We can't give you the exact number today because it changes daily, but let's call it 200.
Arianne, do you want to correct me? You may be more current than I am.
12:05 p.m.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
How many have been signed with manufacturers in China?
12:10 p.m.
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
On the breakdown, we may have to get back to you on that, Mr. Chair. China is still a very significant player in the PPE market. The majority of products are still being manufactured in China. The contract may not be with a company in China, though. The contract may be with a Canadian company that is acquiring through China, or you may have some directly in China. I believe that's what's important.
Arianne, do you wish to add anything to this?