Government Operations Committee on May 22nd, 2020

[Jan Simpson]

Thank you for your question.

Even though those workers are not our members, we feel that everybody has the right to feel safe at work. No matter what the jurisdiction is, with the COVID-19 happening right now, the PPE should be supplied to those people working at the Shoppers Drug Mart and the private counters that you spoke about earlier.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay, thank you.

An article published on May 5 said that Amazon had not informed the employees in its Brampton warehouse that a case of COVID-19 had been identified there.

Could you tell me whether Canada Post employees have direct contact with Amazon warehouses? If so, given the rudimentary measures that Amazon uses to manage its employees, its famous point system, I would like to know about the safety measures in place to make sure that no one is infected.

[Jan Simpson]

It's disappointing the way Amazon is treating their warehouse workers by not respecting the COVID-19 process. As soon as somebody is COVID-positive, Amazon should notify those working within and do a proper trace to notify those who could possibly have been in contact. We're disappointed to see that the government gave them this contract while knowing that they had this very bad record for how they treat workers.

Currently I don't think our members are in contact with the Amazon workers, but I can get back to you with a definite answer later on.

Thank you again for your question.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Is there good communication, at least between Amazon warehouses and your employees, in terms of the identified cases?

[Jan Simpson]

As I said, we don't have direct contact with the warehouses, so I'm not too sure if there's communication. People may know them in their own personal life, but on a business level, we don't have contact with the Amazon workers on a daily basis as such.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Okay.

Canada Post also has a website, but, as I understand it, it uses the Amazon platform for distribution. Is the Canada Post platform not able to do what Amazon does internally, or was that choice made freely by the government?

What is your vision as an official of the union? Would it have been possible for Canada Post to handle all the operations?

[Jan Simpson]

We have been advised by the ministers we spoke to, as well as the Canada Post representative, that the piece of the contract that was given to Amazon could not have been done by CUPW members, but again I want to reiterate that we're disappointed that the government awarded this multi-million-dollar contract to a company that has a bad history across the world of not treating its workers properly. To give this kind of financial reward to this company is unacceptable, and we really have to make a better choice when we look at providing contracts so that workers' rights are respected and health and safety are also respected.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

We want that too.

According to Ernst & Young, the current Canada Post model is not viable in the long term without an increase in revenue or a reduction in costs. By 2026, the annual losses will be more than $700 million. I know that your union has given the government a number of suggestions about revenue and the services that Canada Post provides.

Do you feel that those suggestions can really result in better-quality services that are quicker and cost less?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Unfortunately, we're over time as we speak, so once again, Ms. Simpson, I will ask you to provide an answer to that question in writing as quickly as possible to our clerk.

We'll now go to another five-minute round of questioning with Mr. Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair, and I do have to go on the record and say I'm a bit disappointed that we didn't have Canada Post before us today and we didn't have Amazon before us today, but I do deeply appreciate Ms. Simpson for being here to represent her incredible union of postal workers.

On May 1, 2020, the Canadian Union of Postal Workers issued a news release criticizing the pace at which Canada Post took measures to protect employees, including the time it took to provide workers with PPE. The same news release criticized the quality of the masks that were provided to workers.

What is your assessment of Canada Post's communication and its implementation of employee safety measures and leave provisions?

[Jan Simpson]

Thank you for your question, Mr. Green.

I too was disappointed that Canada Post and Amazon were not here. I was looking forward to hearing their points of view on the different issues.

In regard to the PPE, it was slow in coming, and it was only, I think, last week that we learned that Canada Post was ordering the masks for all the employees.

We think you need to be proactive, not reactive. Even though Theresa Tam didn't say we needed masks for all employees, the employees were asking for that, as well as for hand sanitizers, wipes, face masks, face shields and even the protective shields that went up at the retail counters.

As part of a big company serving the public on a regular basis, the workers know what they need. By speaking to the local joint health and safety committee, Canada Post would have heard these things and would have been able to order the items earlier on. We asked the government to also put Canada Post on their procurement list and prioritize Canada Post as a company that will receive the PPE in a timely manner.

We don't know how long COVID-19 will go on and how long we need to have the PPE in place, but we need it once more to be proactive and have the equipment in place and not be scrambling at the last minute to get these items for the workers. We want to make sure that the workers who go to work are safe and that the ones who need to be home on any kind of leave are receiving full financial help for staying home.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Can you give us an example of the consequences for workers who have poor co-operation with public health authorities?

[Jan Simpson]

A lot of times with misinformation—we're all going through this COVID together and we don't know what the outcome will be. Every day we are learning new things, and people have anxiety. They're out there every day dealing with the public and they don't know what the reality is or what their health and safety is.

As we get more information, it needs to be shared in a timely manner and we need to have joint meetings with our committee so they can share the information with the members in a timely fashion so everybody's on the same page and understands the risks that they feel. The reality of working in a plant versus working on the street is very different for each worker.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

How would you rate your satisfaction with Canada Post's response to your workforce?

[Jan Simpson]

It could get better. We know that at different levels there are different communications happening, but we need to have local joint health and safety committees that are actually on the work floor with the workers. That's where the communication has to happen first. Those are the workers who are on the front line and if they're scared and they need PPEs or they have certain questions that need to be answered, they need to be answered as soon as possible to try to alleviate the workers' fear.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You mentioned that there may not have been an overlap between Amazon's responsibilities and what your front-line workers are providing. Do you believe that there is growth and room within Canada Post to be able to have a comprehensive logistics system that would safeguard the distribution of our critical PPEs throughout all levels of government and health agencies across Canada?

[Jan Simpson]

I think there's always an opportunity for Canada Post to expand the services they offer and that's why we have Delivering Community Power, which talks about expansion of services. As we reopen the economy, we need to look at how we can expand and make Canada Post a community hub. In some locations, it's the only federal building in the community. I think it can do different jobs and different services.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I will probably take up that line of questioning.

Is this a five-minute round or a six-minute round?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

This is a five-minute round. You have a little less than a minute.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I just want to go ahead and appreciate you for being here. In my second round, I'll start fresh with that line of questioning on Delivering Community Power.

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you.

We'll now go to the second round of four-minute questions, starting with Mr. McCauley.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

Great, thanks.

I have a really quick comment. It's remarkable that Canada Post has 60,000 employees, a lot indoors in large but also very worker-intensive situations and not a single COVID case has been traced back to Canada Post. I want to say thanks to both sides—the management at Canada Post for delivering what has turned out to be a great, safe workplace, and also CUPW for working with Canada Post to look after all the workers. It's remarkable to not have a single COVID case traced back to the workplace, despite 60,000 workers.

[Jan Simpson]

At this time, there's no tracing back to the workplace. So, yes, we're very happy that our workers are being safe, but we also want to ensure that it stays that way by having open communication and having the local joint health and safety committees involved in every aspect.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

That's what I was saying—it looks as though both sides are doing a wonderful job. So again thanks to both sides. It's a remarkable story.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you, Mr. McCauley.

We'll now go to Mr. Jowhari for four minutes.

Go ahead, please.