Government Operations Committee on May 22nd, 2020

[Jan Simpson]

We think it could be a community hub where there's one-stop shopping, for example. Right now, we offer student loan services and some fishing licences.

As well, with the pandemic currently, a lot of the banks are closed. If we had postal banking, which we had until 1968, you would be able to go in there to do your banking and purchase your stamps. A lot of places don't have community broadband. You could have broadband access to Internet services while you're at the post office, as well as charging stations to charge electric vehicles.

With regard to senior check-in services, we do what we call the last mile. With the last mile, you're able to go to everybody's door where other companies like Purolator do not go. You could make sure that seniors are home safe and sound during the pandemic, possibly delivering medication.

It's an opportunity for Canada Post. We can analyze what opportunities were missed by retail services at the retail counters, and from the letter carriers who go door to door or do community mailbox deliveries, as well as from the RSMCs who deliver in the rural areas.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

We've had changes made to Canada Post, of course, and in a lot of the more rural areas, we've seen the construction of bulk community postboxes as opposed to door-to-door delivery.

Do you have the information at the tip of your tongue, or can you send it to us, in terms of what proportion of Canadians still receive door-to-door mail delivery?

I'm asking in light of post-pandemic. We know that keeping track of people in their homes becomes particularly important when people are locked down. I think that one of my colleagues mentioned this earlier: the social contact offered by our posties.

What proportion of Canadians still get home delivery of their mail?

[Jan Simpson]

I don't have the number right at hand, but I will definitely get back to you within a timely manner so you'll have the exact numbers.

We feel that every home should have door-to-door delivery if they require it, and we're disappointed with how community mailboxes go into areas. We really want to get back to having door-to-door delivery for all Canadians across the country.

[Elizabeth May, Green, Saanich—Gulf Islands, BC]

Thank you, and to Mr. Weiler too.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

We'll now go to our final two interventions of two minutes each.

Monsieur Barsalou-Duval.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

From what I read and often hear, postal workers have a lot of work at the moment. Actually, it is said that they have as much work as during the holiday season. The volume is high, and the situation with COVID-19 raises concerns and requires additional measures to be taken to make work safe for the people working on the front lines and needed by the public.

Have any relief measures been implemented to let the staff gain a little balance and take a breath from time to time?

[Jan Simpson]

Like I said before, they're offered a lot of overtime because, unfortunately, after two years we still don't have a contract in place for both of the bargaining units I mentioned earlier on. Therefore, we could have fixed some of the problems of overburdening if we had finished the negotiations before the pandemic hit. Currently, with the pandemic in place, a lot of the workers are getting overtime to take the parcels out.

We also have to put measures in place so that people will not overexert themselves and become exhausted doing the work. Therefore, temporary workers have been coming in to help out and overtime is being offered to those who want it.

[Xavier Barsalou-Duval, Bloc, Pierre-Boucher—Les Patriotes—Verchères, QC]

In your opinion, are there enough temporary workers?

Has Canada Post considered hiring retirees to lend a hand?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

A very brief answer as well, please.

[Jan Simpson]

No, we're not looking at calling back retirees. They would have to reapply to be rehired to be a postal worker again

Currently, there are temporary workers who need to be trained to work with the social distancing that needs to be in place so we can ensure that their training is proper. A lot of the times, when we train, you shadow another letter carrier on their route or an RSMC on their route. We have to ensure that social distancing and those provisions are in place.

As I've said before, we need to hire more workers at a higher starting wage as well to keep people working at Canada Post for a long time.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

For our final two-minute intervention, we'll go back to Mr. Green.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair.

Again, I want to share my dismay that we didn't have Amazon here. I say that because my fear, given Ms. Simpson's recent understanding that they need to have higher pay for this work and the fact that we now have Amazon in the mix, is whether there is now a concern at your union that there could be calls for potential increased transfer of your work toward lower-income, lower-labour protection companies like Amazon, given in particular that you don't have a contract. That's really what I stumbled on.

[Jan Simpson]

Unfortunately, Canada Post is not really doing transfers right now, where you can transfer from one location to another location. Through collective bargaining, we're able to ensure the work stays with our CUPW members through a consultation. Therefore, we have to ensure that, even if people work at Amazon, they need to be organized into a union. This is what's important, because every worker has a right to join a union, and they need to join a union. We even saw the vice-president of Amazon quit because he saw how badly the workers at Amazon are being treated. That should speak volumes—

[Technical difficulty--Editor]

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

I think Ms. Simpson has frozen.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

I kind of froze on the question a little bit, so that's all fair game.

I do hope that we have, at a future date, the vice-president of Amazon here before us. I do hope that we have, at a future date, Canada Post. I'm still unsure and a little disappointed about why they're not here before us today. Hopefully, I can pick up some of that line of question directly regarding the future prospects of increased privatization.

Mr. Chair, I'll say in my final 30 seconds that back in 2016, as you know, as a young city councillor, I was before this very committee to provide testimony on the need for postal banking. That was a call that I think would provide significant revenues to Canada Post. It's a call that we've had most recently from our MP Niki Ashton that there are viable ways we can use the fact that there are more post office outlets across Canada than there are Tim Hortons.

With that, I will conclude my remarks and thank Ms. Simpson for being before us here today, even if she can't get online.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Thank you very much.

Ms. Simpson, I'm not sure if you can hear me now or not, but if you can, I want to thank you for your appearance here today, and I want to thank all committee members for staying within our guidelines for time allocation for the questions.

Ms. Simpson, you are excused, and now, colleagues, I will not need to suspend. We can go directly into committee business.

I want to go over a couple of points first.

First, by now you have all received an updated work plan that our analyst would have emailed to you just prior to the start of this meeting. I'm not sure if you've had a chance to go over it or not, but if you can, I would suggest you try to scan that as quickly as possible because we want to discuss potential future witnesses whom you may wish to bring before our committee.

Second, I'm not sure what's going to happen on Monday. Monday, of course, was scheduled to be the resumption of Parliament. I have no idea whether or not Parliament will be returning in an abridged form, a hybrid form or whether the current sittings of Parliament, which have been mostly virtual with a few in-person sittings, will continue. It depends on what happens on Monday. I'm anticipating, of course, there will perhaps be some vigorous discussions about that. I'm not sure if there are going to be any motions to that effect, but currently we are under the motion that was adopted on April 11. That expires come Monday.

I mention all of this by way of background because we will have to wait to see what happens on Monday to determine how many more of these meetings we'll be having. The normal scheduled end of Parliament was June 19—that's on the parliamentary calendar—but we don't know at this point whether that will still be in effect or not.

So given that, I would suggest that we take a look at the schedule for the next few weeks without getting onto the last scheduled day, June 19. If we could look at meetings up until that time, perhaps even the week of June 12, that might be the best course of action. I'd hate for us to schedule meetings and find out that Parliament has been dissolved or adjourned for the summer, if that is to be the case.

Third, I want to remind people that the time of Monday's meeting has changed. Normally, we meet between 2 p.m and 4 p.m. eastern standard time. Monday will be between 5 p.m. and 7 p.m. eastern standard time.

Finally, I will turn this over now to our analyst, and Raphaëlle, perhaps you could lead the discussion on the work plan you have distributed.

[Raphaëlle Deraspe, Committee Researcher]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

As members will see, we suggest an additional six meetings. The first two have already been approved by the committee and should take place next week. Then we proposed another four, and I'm going to highlight the changes between version three and version four of the work plan.

For the second last meeting, which will be meeting 13, we added officials from PSPC responsible for the administration of the Phoenix pay system, as suggested by one member, and we also added a 14th meeting, which would be the last, with suggestions from members as well as the two witnesses from Amazon and Canada Post who were supposed to appear today.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Colleagues, you now have that revised work plan. I'll open it up for discussion.

Mr. MacKinnon.

[Steven MacKinnon, Liberal, Gatineau, QC]

I have a point for clarity: the Minister of Public Services and Procurement will be asked back explicitly to discuss the Phoenix pay system?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

May I remind all colleagues that the order of reference adopted on April 11 was that this committee must restrict its study to the government's response to COVID-19.

Raphaëlle, perhaps, given that context, you can explain what you would have the witnesses speak about, if they're coming to talk about the Phoenix pay system? Is there a relationship between that and COVID-19?

[Raphaëlle Deraspe]

Yes. Regarding Minister Anand, my understanding is that one member would like her to discuss procurement. Regarding officials from PSPC on the Phoenix pay system, I'm not sure what the relationship is with the current study. Maybe the member who proposed that could speak to it.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Madam Vignola, perhaps you could explain your suggestion to bring in someone from the Phoenix pay system and how that relates to the COVID-19 government response.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Actually, it was really to determine the impact of the response to this crisis on other sectors of activity that were already weak. If the committee considers that there is no reason for it and that it can wait, I have no problem. I simply feel that our duty is to prevent rather than to cure.

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

I'm not quite sure if I see the direct relationship, but before I make any further comments, I see a couple of hands raised.

I think Mr. McCauley is first.

[Kelly McCauley, Conservative, Edmonton West, AB]

I was just going to say that we're generally fine with the plan that's put forward, recognizing that things may change depending on the negotiations in the House.