Evidence of meeting #20 for Government Operations and Estimates in the 43rd Parliament, 1st Session. (The original version is on Parliament’s site, as are the minutes.) The winning word was advertising.
A recording is available from Parliament.
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Communications and Consultations, Privy Council Office
—[Inaudible—Editor] to do that for the campaigns.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you very much.
I also want to ask about this with respect to the advertising campaigns. Largely, these have been PSAs about COVID. My understanding from your remarks today is that this new money is meant to continue those campaigns.
What techniques are you using to evaluate the success of those advertising dollars, to see if people are getting value for money with respect to those campaigns? You mentioned earlier that you've seen some success and you were taking credit for some of the awareness about social distancing measures and other things like that. How do you know that? What metrics do you use?
Assistant Secretary to the Cabinet, Communications and Consultations, Privy Council Office
We are mandated to do evaluations of all the campaigns that we put out using what's called the ACET process. All departments use this. I did mention the metric earlier that the recall rate on the advertising was 85%. Just to give you an idea of what that means, it means that when we go out to research this after the fact, we can ask Canadians “Have you seen this ad?”, and the recall rate is 85%.
That compares to previous years at 34% for Government of Canada advertising—that's roughly 34% for the past two fiscal years—so we're seeing that advertising being recalled very well. Of course, if you encounter advertising that doesn't work quite as well, it gives you an opportunity to adjust your future campaigns.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Thank you.
With my remaining time, I want to ask some questions of PSPC about the money for Phoenix. In response to my colleague's questions earlier, you mentioned the difference between staffing levels at the beginning of the Phoenix pay system and staffing levels now, but I'm curious to know what specifically the new money being requested in these supplementary estimates will be used for. How many staff will be hired out of this money that's being requested? How much of this money, if any, will go to IBM?
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Thank you for the question.
We have been receiving funding on an annual basis since the beginning of the Phoenix issues, so the large proportion of the salary dollars that will be coming out of the supplementary estimates will be for retention of existing staff. We're not looking to grow the workforce exponentially, but rather to maintain the staff we have brought on, trained and engaged to become pay support staff.
There will be funding that goes to IBM. We do have a contractual obligation to them. The funding last year for IBM was about $80 million. We are now looking, through a request for interest, to solicit inputs or bids for alternative providers through a market solicitation.
NDP
Daniel Blaikie NDP Elmwood—Transcona, MB
Has PIPSC been invited to bid on that work or to put forward a proposal for how some of that work might be done in-house, as opposed to going directly to a third party?
Associate Deputy Minister, Human Resources-to-Pay Stabilization, Department of Public Works and Government Services
There has been a lot of—
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Unfortunately, again, Mr. Linklater, for the second time, I apologize for interrupting, but if you could, please provide the rest of that answer in writing as soon as possible to our clerk, because we're now going to the next round of questioning at five minutes each, starting with Mrs. Block.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Thanks very much, Mr. Chair.
Thank you so much to our witnesses for joining us on such a beautiful, warm day.
Mr. Matthews, in these estimates, there is, as you noted in a response to one of my colleagues, $500 million in a request for funds to make payments to suppliers of PPE. Can you tell the committee the total value of all PPE contracts entered into by PSPC?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I cannot tell you at this stage. Frankly, it changes on a daily basis. The $500 million we are looking for here, Mr. Chair, is for contracts that PSPC would enter into for itself, as opposed to for clients or other departments. It's a bit of a different ask in that respect.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Okay.
Last week at committee, you identified that roughly 40% of your department's contracts contained an advance payment component. Of the contracts that have this component, can you estimate for the committee what the average percentage of advance payment is?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
It would be a really rough guess. What I could say, Mr. Chair, is that it varied depending upon the period in time during which we were transacting. There was a period in March and April during which if you were buying N95, you were looking at 100% in some cases. Early on, it was as low as 25%. Then it went to 50%, and then it peaked at 100%. I would say that more recently you're seeing cases in which, for certain commodities only, 50% seems to be the most common request, but there's a lot of back-and-forth. I would also say it's commodity-specific.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Okay. Thank you.
Of the contracts that require an advance payment, what percentage are with suppliers whose manufacturing is in China?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
The majority of PPE right now is still coming from overseas, China in particular. We are still reliant on China as we look to stand up domestic capacity. We do have some coming from the U.S. as well. I could ballpark it, but I would say the vast majority of contracts early on were certainly coming from China.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Thank you.
What percentage of contracts with our domestic manufacturers have a prepayment component?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
Again, it depends on the commodity and the investment required. If you're looking at the gown industry in particular, you will see a lot of requirement to get your hands on material. There's great competition to get your hands on that kind of material, so some of our suppliers who struggled to make that initial outlay were seeking advance payments as well.
In the case of ventilators, for which there was large upfront investment, we saw some as well, so there are some for domestic suppliers as well.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Okay. Thank you.
We understand from answers by the minister that your department is trying to extract itself from the contract with the supplier who provided us with substandard KN95 masks.
Are there any other contracts for PPE that the department is trying to get out of at this time?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
You're right about the one. There are a few others that are struggling with delivery dates that are still in place. We expect there's one other that would have some issues of quality as well. It's too early to say what we're going to see on that one. To answer your question bluntly, there's still the active one we talked about. There are others that could pop up that we're monitoring closely.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
Okay. Thank you.
Are there currently any contracts that you are worried about in terms of performance—what you had originally hoped for versus perhaps what you're seeing in deliverables?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
I would highlight two issues. One is timeliness. For some, there have been some issues with timeliness. We're in constant communication with our suppliers to understand, when delivery dates slip, what the date will be. In a case where there are multiple delays, you have to start to question their ability to deliver. There's ongoing dialogue there.
On the quality front, we're always checking for quality with N95 or KN95. That comes up a lot. There are a couple that we're actively monitoring.
Conservative
Kelly Block Conservative Carlton Trail—Eagle Creek, SK
This will be my last question, because I imagine I am running out of time.
Of the $500 million that has been requested in these estimates, how much has already been spent?
Deputy Minister, Department of Public Works and Government Services
In terms of expenses that are out the door, I can't give you an answer, but in terms of planned contracts or contracts that are under way, the majority would be under contract.
Conservative
The Chair Conservative Tom Lukiwski
Thank you very much.
We'll now go to Mr. Weiler for five minutes.
Go ahead, please.
Liberal
Patrick Weiler Liberal West Vancouver—Sunshine Coast—Sea to Sky Country, BC
Good afternoon. Thank you to the witnesses from PCO and PSPC for joining our committee meeting today.
My first questions relate to PCO.
In your written statement, you mentioned that PCO has been leading intergovernmental efforts to coordinate federal, provincial and territorial responses to the pandemic and to ensure information sharing among governments. What format is this communication taking, and what proportion of the overall $49 million that's been budgeted is supporting the same?