Government Operations Committee on July 23rd, 2020

[Sameer Zuberi, Liberal, Pierrefonds—Dollard, QC]

That segues into the next question I want to ask, which is about employees. We're starting to open up our economy again, our economies within different provinces, and employees are starting to return to their workspaces.

Can you speak about what's being done to make buildings safer, to make workspaces safer?

[Bill Matthews]

Certainly, and I will turn in a moment to Mr. Stéphan Déry, who is the assistant deputy minister of real property.

What you have to remember is that PSPC and the federal government have a national presence, and the circumstances in every jurisdiction are different, not only in terms of active caseload but also in how the local health authority are handling cases. We have to find a model that respects both our role as a national employer and the local circumstances.

Stéphan, do you want to add some commentary on the efforts we're making to get ready and support this?

[Stéphan Déry, Assistant Deputy Minister, Real Property Services Branch, Department of Public Works and Government Services]

It's a pleasure to talk about what we're doing. Our organization has been proactive in preparing the workplace for employees to come back to work. For support in this area, we've been working with Health Canada, PHAC in fact, to ensure that we're following the health guidelines.

The most important thing for us is the health and safety of employees. In cleaning and disinfection, we have increased our cleaning of highly used areas, such as doorknobs, to twice a day, as per a recommendation from Health Canada. We're also tracking and reporting specialized cleaning so that if anybody is suspected of having COVID-19, they can call a number. We've put in place a cleaning protocol, so we'll have our team go in and clean to ensure that there's no risk of contamination and there's no—

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Mr. Déry, I'm sorry to interrupt, but we're completely out of time. I would ask you, sir, since it seems that you have much more to offer, to provide the rest of your testimony in writing as quickly as possible to our clerk. I will ensure, through our clerk, that we have that testimony included and distributed to all our members.

Now we are going to Madame Vignola.

Mrs. Vignola, you may go ahead for six minutes.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Chair.

Good afternoon. Thank you all for being with us today.

Mr. Matthews, in June, Ms. Anand explained that it wasn't possible to disclose the details relating to overseas suppliers. She cited security and the need to minimize the risk of having our contracts or, rather, supply taken.

As we speak, is the threat to our supply as great as it was?

[Bill Matthews]

Thank you for your question, Mrs. Vignola.

The risk is still high in some commodities. The N95 mask is one we're continuing to worry about, but it is a commodity-by-commodity risk. The risk is lower where we're getting domestic supply. That's the short answer to your question. Where we are still reliant on supply coming from overseas, we are guarding our supplier information carefully to make sure we have access to that supply chain on a continual basis should we need it.

I think I'll stop there, Mr. Chair, because I sense the member has more questions.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you, Mr. Matthews.

Yesterday, we found out that equipment bound for Quebec was hijacked in China.

What's being done to get the equipment back as quickly as possible? Furthermore, what's being done to prevent this kind of thing from happening again?

[Bill Matthews]

I cannot speak to that exact case, but I can tell members about the measures we've taken to ensure security of the supply line, from a federal perspective. I suspect the case in question may be of a provincial order, but I'm not certain.

The number one key to bringing goods from China or any other country into Canada is securing the supply line, so having a good in-country process to make sure you get the product and have a place to store it at the airports. It has to be there two weeks in advance, with all the appropriate paperwork to clear customs. Even when all that is done, as with most countries, there's always the possibility of a random inspection. The Chinese government does that on a fairly regular basis, so it's important to have multiple shipments there so that if an order does get held up because of a scheduled inspection, there's an alternative.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

During the initial months of the pandemic in Canada, we saw some quality compliance issues.

Is that still the case? Was it only products coming in from abroad that were problematic, or were Canadian producers having the same issues as well?

[Bill Matthews]

With regard to the quality of goods, because it's medical equipment and personal protective equipment, making sure they meet standard is always paramount. It's something that we have been worried about from day one with our colleagues at the Public Health Agency, who are responsible for the actual testing.

As we talked about at this committee, there were some quality issues early on, some temporary and some ongoing. I would also highlight that even when you stand up domestic manufacturing, where someone is producing something for the first time, you have to make sure it's properly tested before it's put into the system. It's something that we continually monitor and test.

On the mask front, which is the one that got the most attention, we haven't had any new failed tests lately, but Health Canada will continue to test new products, and products as they come in, to make sure they're suitable before they go into the system. There have been no major issues recently, but that doesn't mean we're not still checking.

[Julie Vignola, Bloc, Beauport—Limoilou, QC]

Thank you.

I gather, then, that Canadian companies are reliable and that most of the issues involved products coming from overseas.

In June, we found out that companies making sanitizer were using technical-grade ethanol. One of the companies, Fluid Energy Group, had a contract with the Government of Canada. Unlike the other companies, Fluid Energy Group simply had to put a label on their product to alert consumers, instead of pulling the product from store shelves.

Yesterday, we learned that hand sanitizers made by 40 or so other companies did not adhere to quality standards. How many of those 40 companies have a contract with Public Services and Procurement Canada, or PSPC, in other words, with the government?

[Bill Matthews]

On that, I will probably turn to my colleague Ms. Reza to add some more detail.

To return to your previous question, I don't want to leave you with the impression that none of the domestic manufacturers haven't had any challenges on quality as they stand up their new productions. It's not just international; there are some domestic as well that we've had to keep an eye on.

On the hand sanitizer, there are different grades of ethanol.

Arianne, do you want to walk through the different grades and where our contracts are?

[The Chair, Conservative, Tom Lukiwski]

Madam Reza, we're completely out of time. I would ask that you provide your testimony in written form to our clerk and that you do so as quickly as possible. That testimony will be distributed to all of our committee members.

We'll go to our next intervention.

Mr. Green, you have six minutes.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Thank you very much, Mr. Chair. It's certainly good to be back.

I appreciate you providing your remarks, Mr. Matthews.

From data compiled by Public Services and Procurement Canada with regard to supplying the Canadian health care sector to July 17, 2020, we have a chart that lays out close to 172 million N95 masks, with quantities received—subject to quality assurance tests—in the amount of 22,665,310. You touched on this in the previous questions, but I do feel the need to go back to this. Knowing that in the initial orders, when we had ordered 11 million, nine million were deemed insufficient, to date how many N95 masks have been purchased that have passed the test?

[Bill Matthews]

On the N95 front—I would again refer members to the updated web chart that came out earlier—we are actually at a number now of 50.6 million that have come through and are acceptable and are in Canada. There's ongoing testing, which I want to stress, because of the importance of these masks.

On the issue the member mentioned in terms of earlier “rejects”, if I can use that word, we're not seeing that right now. That was in the past. However, I'm not understating the importance of ongoing testing. We've seen a pretty good jump recently on the N95s, with good quality, but we'll keep monitoring as we go forward.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Going back to that, clearly it's still an issue. Of the 9.8 million defective N95 masks that have been separated from the respirators that have been received....

First of all, have they been separated from the ones that have been received, or are they still in your total global numbers?

[Bill Matthews]

In the numbers we produced this morning, we've now taken out all the rejects that didn't pass the quality standards. They are no longer in those numbers. The ones you're seeing on the web chart now are the ones that are acceptable.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

That's positive news.

You mentioned, in reference to your statement, your procurement experts on the ground. That includes Deloitte; is that correct?

[Bill Matthews]

When I'm talking about experts, I'm talking about PSPC. We do have procurement experts. Not to say we don't get help from outside, but I was referring to our own team.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

You also mentioned the immediate needs now being filled. You will recall that we had, certainly I did, grave concerns around the national emergency strategic stockpile. I understand there has been a closed call to action, and you're returning to your “competitive procurement opportunities where requirements permit.”

Where does the national emergency strategic stockpile stand in this moment, understanding that we're probably going to be into a second wave?

[Bill Matthews]

I won't give exact numbers, but a couple of key points. As I mentioned earlier, we've secured additional warehouse space, just to give you a sense that it's bigger. There's more to come on that front, so certainly, a stockpile well in excess of what it was earlier. Besides—

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

Just to be clear, for clarity, and for people who are watching, you had 13 warehouses. You shut down two or three of them. Have you just reopened the old warehouses to restock the national emergency strategic stockpile, or have you now actually purchased and acquired new warehouses, different from the ones you guys closed down last year?

[Bill Matthews]

The additional warehouse space I'm referring to is additional leased space that will be put in place. Some temporary space has been found, but we're also looking for some more permanent or semi-permanent space. We're not looking at purchasing, so it's leasing. The Public Health Agency has asked us to acquire additional space, which gives you a sense that the stockpile is growing. That is the message there.

[Matthew Green, NDP, Hamilton Centre, ON]

It also gives me a sense that they made a grave mistake in shutting them down in the first place.

I have concerns in your statement over your remarks on Minister Anand announcing the essential services contingency reserve. There was some deflection the last time around the national emergency stockpile. Members of this committee will recall Minister Hajdu pivoting on the mandate, which was clearly written out and expressed in all the policies surrounding the national emergency strategic stockpile.

Is Minister Anand, in her recent announcement of the essential services contingency reserve, creating a new body to replace the national emergency stockpile, or is the government just simply pivoting and calling these new leased warehouses something different to provide essentially the same outcome under the mandate of the national emergency strategic stockpile?

[Bill Matthews]

No, it's very different. As mentioned, the essential services contingency reserve announced by Minister Anand is a backstop to support essential services and industry. Those are things like energy, information, technology, finance, food, water, transportation, and manufacturing in certain key areas.

It's really very much a backstop for those key industries if they are unable to acquire PPE as the economy reopens. We would expect them to exhaust all the stops to acquire it on their own, and then maybe look to other sources. This is very much a last resort—